Induction brass annealer redux

[Gina1]

First off.. I'm not an induction guru, just a retired electronic tech/engineer.

Erick, after a lot of trial and error came up with the size/winding for a coil that would work with most rifle cases (308, 6xc, 30-06, 300 win mag, etc) It works !!
It also works in conjunction with the listed induction PCB.

Aeon... I really don't know anything about the induction PCB your link took me to. I can tell you by looking at the picture, the built in fan will not be cooling the capacitors and that is what really gets hot when doing a large number of cases.
Your choice of that lower voltage PS, maybe a good one. The induction PCB (as listed in this thread) will work from 50V-12V (so they say). The name of the game is power (watts). in the case of that 36 volts PS with 597 watts. I know on my annealer I had to lower the PS voltage to 43 volts to keep from pulling excessive current (limit 12.5 on my PS) (with the neck and shoulders in the coil) So 12.5 amps X 43 volts = 537.5 watts. Just remember the more you put a case in the coil, the more current it will draw. The more current, the shorter the annealing time. If your going to go with the 36 volt PS let us know how it works out. When Erick and I started this, 48 volts was chosen as a base line. 36 volts maybe better with this coil.

Scott.. I would stick with a fixed PS. First it's less expensive than one that has all the bells and whistles. If your looking at a remote turn on, as from the timer, to turn on the PS to save the cost of the relay/contactor, the contactor/relay is only 8 bucks. Adjusting the voltage and current on the fly would be nice. But would it be worth it, in the long run.
Some where on youtube.com there is a video (with these induction PCB's) that shows power has to be applied suddenly, in order for the induction circuit to start to oscillate. The relay/contactor will do that. A remote switched on PS most likely will ramp up and may not kick the induction PCB into oscillation.

Hope this help Gina

 

[Terry Altom]

I finally resolved my leak problem.

I've got the smallest hose clamps, but even those don't


I've got the smallest hose clamps I can find. When they go down all the way, they're a little eliptical shaped and I can hear air escaping from the connection. I'll look for 3/16" hose, but with that I'm also concerned about the same problem then going from the 3/16" ID hose to the 3/8" ID hose.

I may try a few layers of heat shrink on the copper tubing to enlarge it enough for a nearly tight fit on the 1/4" hose I've got.

Heat shrink was the fix. I only need one layer of it to take up the extra space. Nice tight fit after that.

I put about an inch of the 1/4" ID inside the 3/8" ID and cut that flat off. Then, I attached that directly from the pump/tank onto the 1/4" copper. Very neat/clean connection. You can see it going to the PCB under the blue fan of the attached picture.

I've got to make the front shelf and trap door, but I did manage to manually anneal about 30 cases. Very cool stuff!

 

[GrocMax]

Thanks for the response. I'll get with the mfg on specific application but they say the remote output switching is intended for industrial motor start and high capacitive loads.

Understood that things were spec'ed out for budgetary constraints while retaining full functionality.

Scott.. I would stick with a fixed PS. First it's less expensive than one that has all the bells and whistles. If your looking at a remote turn on, as from the timer, to turn on the PS to save the cost of the relay/contactor, the contactor/relay is only 8 bucks. Adjusting the voltage and current on the fly would be nice. But would it be worth it, in the long run.
Some where on youtube.com there is a video (with these induction PCB's) that shows power has to be applied suddenly, in order for the induction circuit to start to oscillate. The relay/contactor will do that. A remote switched on PS most likely will ramp up and may not kick the induction PCB into oscillation.

Hope this help Gina

 

[Gina1]

Taltom... NEETO.

Good work. Nice layout

Interesting... looks like you mounted the 48 volt PS on the bottom (wires going thru the floor) Saves inside space, makes for a smaller unit.

Keep up the good work

Gina

 

[Terry Altom]

Taltom... NEETO.

Good work. Nice layout

Interesting... looks like you mounted the 48 volt PS on the bottom (wires going thru the floor) Saves inside space, makes for a smaller unit.

Keep up the good work

Gina

Yeah, I was trying to get it down to something that stays on the shelf until I need it, then fits on the reloading bench with some room to set something to catch the hot cases. Here's a picture before the front went on. Voltage will be adjustable through the back. Power cable comes out the side so the box sets all the way flat back agains the bench.





Here's with the front on. Still have to make the shelf/trapdoor, though.

 

[Gina1]

You must be right handed

 

[GrocMax]

I thought this was interesting, the AMP patent application. Note they use a variable gap magnetic core.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20140144903

 

[boltfluter]

I thought this was interesting, the AMP patent application. Note they use a variable gap magnetic core.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20140144903

Wow, that's some nice light reading. Not.

Paul

 

[Gina1]

I thought this was interesting, the AMP patent application. Note they use a variable gap magnetic core.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20140144903

Yep Scott, I did look up their patent application a while ago. Nice machine for $1,000.00 The main advantage with the AMP machine is the amount of annealing time is already programmed in it.
To use it for a particular case, just look up the case in the book that comes with it, set the CPU to that program number and press go. The disadvantage with it is that different cases need different distance size pilots, to put the neck and shoulders in the correct position in the induction field. After annealing the case needs to be dropped out of the pilot and a new case inserted.

 

[GrocMax]

Yeah the AMP is an accessory heavy unit but it appears they did their homework. The adjustable core gap is somewhat unique. The Giraud/Fluxeon uses a similar fixed gap core setup. Commercial inductive neck annealers I've run across come in two types, continuous feed with multiple long flat coils or one-shot with what must be a gap core by the way it was loading/unloading. Neither drew more than 6 amps. The one video of a one-shot unit I found had the actual heater unit pixel censored out (anneal porn !?!!!).

All the info I've been able to come across indicates coil design is extremely application specific in the inductive heating world.

 

[TAJ45]

This is something i would be interested to buy as am a not elect inclined so when you get a firm price e-mail me at nelsonhowells@comcast.net

Don't want to be a party pooper but the name just doesn't roll off the tongue.
Mebbe consider: Ginarick, Ginerick, Gi'nerick.
Three syllables more catchy than 4.....
You do do nice work. Any way to get the slotted cake pan concept feeding into a funnel to load butt first incorporated? I think the "Load and Forget" would be the absolute best of all worlds. You know, putter around sizing, priming, getting cases out of the media or dried.....etc, while your brainchild is doing the heavy lifting. A marriage made in heaven. Maybe slave the trap door mech to the new case drop.....with timing being delayed a tad by mere physical impediment of new one sliding into the coil.....just brainstorming here. I've always loved fixturing etc for production.

 

[Gina1]

Hi Tom... Thanks for writing.

The name of the annealing unit came from Erick (hollywood). We both worked on it together, although more than 2,000 miles apart, hence the name, GinaErick...
Think........ greneric !!! A induction annealer for everyone at a price that is reasonable. We think the name works.

Actually there are several builders working on the self loading concept with the GinaErick. Have not heard from them for a few weeks. I'm sure they will post once they get it working.

Gina

 

[missed]

Hopefully I'll have mine done in the next couple weeks. I have one project ahead of it. I have two paths going through my head. One is with a case feeder, my other thought is build one to go on a Dillon 550 so your depriming, trim, and anneal.

I'll get the build posted as soon as it's ready!

Y'all have a good Thanksgiving!

 

[Hollywood]

Ok, OK, real life experience with the existing GinaErick annealer, as seen in the video on this thread. The only thing that gets hot on the induction PCB board are the capacitors, hence the need for the fan over the PCB board. The heat sink'ed MOSFET'S stay cool. No additional cooling needed there, but I'm sure the fan helps..
The capacity of the radiator(with the fan and coolant pump) is more than adequate to do more than a 100 cases at one time. (the most I've done at one time) The coolant never got very hot, but you could feel the radiator blowing out the heat and the coil stayed cool.
You can change the design if you wish, but this works.

With my original setup, I have the 12v pump in a large mason jar. I have done 1000 .308 lc cases in one sitting. I wanted to abuse it to see what failed if anything, and nothing failed. The water was defenatley hot but I had no problem keeping a finger in the water.

 

[kit-808]

Well im still waiting on a few things to turn up (timer and element), put have most of the gear i need to start fitting it into the case.
Yes i know, its a big rad, but i had it lying around doing nothing and it fits very well (need to mod the case) and a small pump/res unit will work a treat

 

[Frog]

Kit-808
You should remove the back panel for better air flow thru your radiator

Are you going to mount the power supplies and the zvs board in the hard drive bays?
Post more pics when you get it built please

 

[GrocMax]

I got the timer and counter in and had a chance to play with them, counter works as both a total count if set point is 0, or you can have it hold a stop signal to the timer and shut it off after the count set point is reached. No signal inversion needed, counter can be set to trigger high or low.

I chose DC powered, relay output versions.

Now to test the optical proximity sensor and if it will work in a drop tube situation. It is a self-contained unit with 3 wires- 5v, open collector output, and 0v. 5v supply is going to be a small sub 1A linear regulator rather than a separate power supply. Will have to breadboard test things first. These units are cheap at 6 bucks, sight distance is 1/2". Only question is whether a case in a drop tube will transmit a signal for the over 100mS duration needed for the timer to recognize a start or stop signal. Its really close to 0.1 seconds for a 45mm long object time to fall the first few inches of the tube.
http://vid163.photobucket.com/albums/t313/GrocMax/1612010006_zpsskwf1spn.mp4

 

[Jammer Six]

Could someone explain the advantage of these machines to a simple Carpenter, with small words, and point out the advantages over a torch and a pie pan with water in it?

Feel free to include advantages like it being the grooviest method to anneal in the state, I am not adverse to such flights of emotion. I only shoot walnut stocks.

 

[Hollywood]

Could someone explain the advantage of these machines to a simple Carpenter, with small words, and point out the advantages over a torch and a pie pan with water in it?

Feel free to include advantages like it being the grooviest method to anneal in the state, I am not adverse to such flights of emotion. I only shoot walnut stocks.

1. Consistency, exactly the same time annealing from case to case.

2. Safer, no flame

3. Although I am biased to this particular design, it is the hotest thing out there.

 

[itchyTF]

Only question is whether a case in a drop tube will transmit a signal for the over 100mS duration needed for the timer to recognize a start or stop signal. Its really close to 0.1 seconds for a 45mm long object time to fall the first few inches of the tube.

Why not add a 555 timer in a one shot configuration? The case would trip the timer (555) and the output pulse can be set for as long as you want.