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Hunting range limit

The only way to really limit the distances of shots it to outlaw scopes, or limit them to really low power(red dots, 1-1.5x, etc.).

Minnesota used to not allow scopes on muzzle loaders until about 10 years ago. Since scopes have been allowed, there seems to be a lot more ML hunters. If up for a vote, I would vote to go back to no scopes, but I do use them.
 
What is a humane kill? I'm sure that definition varies.

I just had this discussion with a minister who was working up Elk loads for a 6.5PRC, he was capable of placing 2.5" groups at 300 yards. He said that he felt that due to his marksmanship 300 yards was his limit, I agreed with him.

I shared my thoughts, I had taken Elk at 600 yards with one shot, but preferred a larger caliber at longer ranges even though my 358 Norma is capable of 1 1/8" groups at 300 yards. My concern with smaller calibers is repeatable bullet performance.

The question that begs is this; can some government regulation provide more concentration and effort on humane kills than the actions taken and the conversation between myself and this gentleman?
In my mind, its one that hits the vitals, ideally at an impact velocity the bullet it designed for. Even if its lower than what is required for good expansion, it will still die fairly quickly with a hole in the heart or lungs. I guess that vital hit has some room for debate. What is not a human kill is to hit it in the hind quarters or the mouth or something and have it die a slow agonizing death from starvation or infection.
 
In my mind, its one that hits the vitals, ideally at an impact velocity the bullet it designed for. Even if its lower than what is required for good expansion, it will still die fairly quickly with a hole in the heart or lungs. I guess that vital hit has some room for debate. What is not a human kill is to hit it in the hind quarters or the mouth or something and have it die a slow agonizing death from starvation or infection.
I understand your post but in what conditions and at what range do you lose the conditions of taking game cleanly?

A clear line of sight out to 700 yards and a hit with a 30 caliber magnum that does not expand well and the game runs into a wooded brush covered area, over 3/8 of a mile away. A distance that takes minutes to just get to where the game was. Now you looking for a blood trail, maybe.

As I got older this is where my thoughts got to and I have changed my choices to larger calibers and or shorter ranges.

A good rifle can take precise shots to vital areas at 300 yards, more retained velocity for bullet expansion. A 35 caliber can require less expansion and displaces energy shock more quickly in the game.

Just some things in my thought process as I got older.
 
My My how the meaning of hunting has changed. But to me this is why it's to late to expect any law to ever educate or control hunting. Go ahead, blast away, tell me how ethical and responsible The thing that has made ethical, legal, responsible, or any description of hunting common sense has gone by the wayside, to many wanna bees, hunting show watchers, advertising sucked in me too's. No more that consider hunting boots on the ground, and cherished time stalking the way the trophy we are pursing does it, hell thats to much work, and requires to much skill, and time in the real hunting world!!

Paying big money to secure leases, hiring guides, and taking any real skill out of the term hunting. Paying for others to do the true work for them so they can boast about being a hunter????? OK, we are impressed. The same "hunters" that brag about 800 and 1000 yard kills, while never speaking or mentioning how many animals, including Trophy grade animals they have wounded or maimed to never recover or have a clue if they lived or died. To many that think 80 or 90% is a good kill ratio over shots taken. Sad, but this is exactly what the majority of humans hiding behind the term hunter to describe themselves, when "WANTA-BEE'S" is a better term!

Today blinds on poles, shoot thru windows, buddy heaters, cell phones, quads, bikes, you name it, and you'll find those hiding behind all of it calling themselves hunters! BS, I call it agents of opportunity. They call hunting smart, "smart" a word introduced in the cyber world to create the LAZIEST SOCIETY the world has ever known, and sadly hunting has become part of it.

16# hunting rifles, obviously firearms that were developed for target shooting, not hunting. Air guns that use bottled gas, and air pumps, not a compression chamber and physical charging to propel the ammunition. rifles and handguns that rely on the largest amunition battery to feed them, knowing the true reason they build them that way is not dangerous encounters, but 99% percent built or bought that way for the purpose of as many follow up shots as they can have to throw lead at anything regardless of being ethical, or responsible! Confusing hunting grade weapons for target and assualt grade weapons,,, sad, very sad.

By now I'm sure many already have drawn a hate for my comments, but without a doubt not one ethical hunter reading this can find one false statement in what I am making. Those that do, I'm just guessing now are those that that could care less about hunting, or ethics, but want anything that goes to be considered hunting.

Base camp is no longer for eating and sleeping only, they're doubling as blinds, our trucks are no longer just to get use to the woods or hunting grounds, their used to stalk and glass from, and many who will never fess up shoot from them, our quads bikes and horses are not for getting game out, they're being used to stalk and more and more to park beside a heated blind or stand, so folks can set and drink hot coffee while they cruise the internet, and undress as the heater warms them and run their business or play games and socialize from, hoping game will walk by or hit a feeder they filled to call themselves hunters???

I am sorry, I know have offended many, probably the majority here. But 71 years ago I was thought to hunt, and never was drove to to stand or to the woods from the road to do what I was taught hunting was. Never was told if I see something worth shooting, to start shooting and don't stop till it was down! I was taught with a single shot shotgun and 22 rf. My first rifle was a M/L, and first centerfire held 3 rounds. But I was taught to make sure the animal was presented properly and within my range to make a responsible one shot kill, only if it was a bad shot from a mistake that wasn't taken on purpose should I ever need a second!

I am just glad when I was at my peak, hunting was a lot different, and why today I feel hunters are far fewer than claimed. Yes I know we still have many who know what the true term hunting is, and not a slang for something you take advantage of when you're actively enjoying some other social activity, if the opportunity to kill presents itself. Those that know why we don't consider 10 or 20 pound firearms hunting rifles, confusing things that restrict are ability to stalk swiftly and unrestricted when needed, when that hard earned opportunity presents itself. As well as those that still know how to turn the cell phone off, and concentrate on making what they are pursuing IN THE WILD, the only thing their objective is. But as I have made clear, I see fewer and fewer every season, with more and more using the term hunting, like a whore uses the term love, for anything but!

Sorry folks, but sometimes you got to call it like it is! I probably shouldn't have read as many posts as I did, but in my old age this was one of those times I just refuse to call an orange an apple! Sorry,, sad to be honest, but Sorry it is what it is.
 
The same "hunters" that brag about 800 and 1000 yard kills, while never speaking or mentioning how many animals, including Trophy grade animals they have wounded or maimed to never recover or have a clue if they lived or died
The same applies to 100 yard wounded or mamed.
 
The same applies to 100 yard wounded or mamed.
No doubt they never mention, and most either deny or act like it never happened. But make no mistake unless it's handgun and archery which is very often inside 50 yards by many, rifle hunters taking shots beyond 4 and 500 yards, many wound a higher % they they harvest!

Many times because they have absolutely NO tracking skills, while many have no ambition to learn practice or try and track wounded game. Another subject that I won't pursue but I have witnessed many times, even helping some that had no clue what to even look for or where. I'm sure many here spend most of their time shooting from a bench confusing that with practice! Practice is done in field conditions and off hand, another thing many proclaimed hunters don't ever do, shoot off hand! But even more have never researched let alone partaken in tracking game that wasn't obviously hit, or nocked down!

But trust me far more at over 400 yards happens that anyone is ever told about!! One and done is something far to many put little priority on, marketing proves that. Far to many make big bucks selling high capacity mags and conversions for higher capacity rounds than offered on most hunting rifles! Just stating facts that are often overlooked! Hoe many spend thousands on custom hunting rigs with blind mags anymore, or pursue making it accurate with light weight as a priority?
 
I'm stating facts that I've personally witnessed more have been wounded and got away at less than 400 yards than longer same with archery more wounded at 30 yards than 50.
We all have our opinions but the Non LR crowd always wants to lump everbody in the same category thats B.S.
 
You know how many guys I know that gut shoot deer at 100 yds?
Almost every year? (One friend of mine who fancied himself a deer hunter for many years lol)
Always brought me Adrenalined Up Gamey Venison
I never knew for years why his deer was so Gamey until I learned what happens to the meat when you wound them and they bolt.
I could make a more precisely placed shot at 600 yds than most hunters from 100
I mean I just demonstrated to a non believer how I can get within 1 foot of target from 400 yards with a semi auto 10mm Pistol Open sights (I will admit with reloads)
The guy was beside himself, until I explained the process and the years of practice.
Their logic doesnt compute,

If there is no limits on human ability,
there should be no limits on range shot from for animals if there is none on People
I mean dang man, the Military Green Lights shooting PEOPLE from 2500 yards

If they are so concerned provide training to help ensure good clean kills
Not restrictions
If they're worried about humane kills, they need to outlaw "gut shooting" game
And if gut shooting game by is LEGAL, at 100 yds who cares how you ened up killing the animal to begin with if youre going to eventually kill it and eat it anyway even from 1200 yds

Some bunny huggers are worried more about animals we're going to EAT!,
more than how far away people get killed from?
The humane aspect comes down to the hunter himself knowing his abilities
As it always has been,
Id say F'em and claim my Const rights to survive, they cant make a law abrogating that
if the game is far away and I cant get closer lest I spook it, Im gonna shoot it
I dont hunt for fun
I hunt to feed myself
It's not "SPORT" hunting, when you do it for the meat and dont care how big the rack is or if there even is a rack
It is sustinence
 
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Have any proof of that or is it the internet lore.
L.sherm rest assured today we have very few hunters compared to the numbers that claim to be. At least an unlimited number of those that call themselves hunters! WANNA BEES! That was the point, I wont get into a chit show over who is worse, if your not one of the wann bees, and your responsible,, THANK YOU! I have witnessed over 70 years hunters and wann bees, retired 34 years ago and hunt fish compete, or shoot 7 days a week and only tell it the way I witness it.

As the range officer at our local range, I have talked and witnessed many, sadly the majority I have experience with getting ready to hunt out west, many with rifles and ammo made for longer range, some using custom rifles in wild magnum calibers. Dam near every one of them I never seen take a single shot that wasn't taken of a front rest or bipod with a rest under the rear sitting at a bench!

I also am a member of two other ranges, one out of state, and have witnessed the same thing on both them ranges. I have shown a couple willing to listen to me, how to practice, with a fixed stool on top of a bench with a pack or even sand bag under their forehand unsupported in the but to simulate a rested field position, or the forend had steadying off a post while standing or sitting. Most times it was the only time I witnessed them shoot that way. Only watch them the next time never leave the bags, and always at 100 yards, telling me if it is on at 100, they know there drop out to 500, a couple out to 1000.

But I can count the ones that practice true practice be out to 400 yards and do it trying to simulate hunting situations with less than a fully rested rifle on a bench. I also watch the majority of local hunters that practice like they would shoot in a field situation, as steady as possible but not like they were shooting a match! That includes squirrel hunters and Varmint hunters. It seems the ones with the rifles chambered for extended range, most stick to the bench, and stay inside 200 yards. After 20 years I no longer am a range officer on any of the three ranges I am a member of, but yes, when yo do this stuff every day for over 34 years it's hard to ignore what you witness!
 
You know how many guys I know that gut shoot deer at 100 yds?
Almost every year? (One friend of mine who fancied himself a deer hunter for many years lol)
Always brought me Adrenalined Up Gamey Venison
I never knew for years why his deer was so Gamey until I learned what happens to the meat when you wound them and they bolt.
I could make a more precisely placed shot at 600 yds than most hunters from 100
I mean I just demonstrated to a non believer how I can get within 1 foot of target from 400 yards with a semi auto 10mm Pistol Open sights (I will admit with reloads)
The guy was beside himself, until I explained the process and the years of practice.
Their logic doesnt compute,

If there is no limits on human ability,
there should be no limits on range shot from for animals if there is none on People
I mean dang man, the Military Green Lights shooting PEOPLE from 2500 yards

If they are so concerned provide training to help ensure good clean kills
Not restrictions
If they're worried about humane kills, they need to outlaw "gut shooting" game
And if gut shooting game by is LEGAL, at 100 yds who cares how you ened up killing the animal to begin with if youre going to eventually kill it and eat it anyway even from 1200 yds

Some bunny huggers are worried more about animals we're going to EAT!,
more than how far away people get killed from?
The humane aspect comes down to the hunter himself knowing his abilities
As it always has been,
Id say F'em and claim my Const rights to survive, they cant make a law abrogating that
if the game is far away and I cant get closer lest I spook it, Im gonna shoot it
I dont hunt for fun
I hunt to feed myself
It's not "SPORT" hunting, when you do it for the meat and dont care how big the rack is or if there even is a rack
It is sustinence
you are 100 percent right, as long as it is a kill, and ate, if not it's sustenance for someone that never got ate!

The other thing I would worry about even more is, if it didn't kill the animal, or hit it,,,,,, what did it hit? Can some of these guys know where that bullet will end up, that means even if it goes thru an animal and keeps going? Id the animal skylighting the horizon on a ridge or ledge? Can they let it walk, knowing it a limited chance to fill a tag?

Responsible is just that, range don't always come into play, and any hunter worth the term realizes that! But your agreeing with me, you can't make a law to make people responsible or ethical, but my point is if they are truly a hunter,,,, they are!
 
you are 100 percent right, as long as it is a kill, and ate, if not it's sustenance for someone that never got ate!

The other thing I would worry about even more is, if it didn't kill the animal, or hit it,,,,,, what did it hit? Can some of these guys know where that bullet will end up, that means even if it goes thru an animal and keeps going? Id the animal skylighting the horizon on a ridge or ledge? Can they let it walk, knowing it a limited chance to fill a tag?

Responsible is just that, range don't always come into play, and any hunter worth the term realizes that! But your agreeing with me, you can't make a law to make people responsible or ethical, but my point is if they are truly a hunter,,,, they are!
yes, I was taught very young and always practice being aware of your background,
good point there may people who may not consider it
 
yes, I was taught very young and always practice being aware of your background,
good point there may people who may not consider it
yes I've witnessed it, but again, there is little good a law would do to stop it, even less good if a death or injury did occur, as we already have laws for when the galactically irresponsible do get caught. Not sure but involuntary manslaughter would be my guess? I just know how I felt when shouldered and hit the safety as an instinct, when I looked thru the scope,,, instant fear of what if,,,,,,,, that alone makes your mind flail. Then that reality of D$^*, what Trophy. I am a meat hunter, and would never shoot a game animal just for the mount, but when it is that nice,,,, you never forget it, to this day I remember every single aspect of it, that to me is what hunting is all about!
 
We hunt open country a lot here where we hunt in Arizona. Our average shot is longer than some guys in some parts of the country but not unreasonable. At least not in my eyes and many of the guys and gals I hunt with.

I also have introduced a lot of people to hunting, so I’ve seen a lot of people hone their skills over the years, some catch on fast some never do.

I know people who lethal at 700 yards and I know people who have a hard time hitting the kill zone at 100. I’m sure most of you do too.

I definitely don’t how you would enforce such a law. My personal opinion is we have plenty of regulations as it is. It would be a shame to limit the guy who has the skill and track record to fill tags cleanly at distance, just like it’s a shame when a guy has a broadside shot at 150 and hits them in the belly, the butt or the foot.

Too bad there isn’t a magical way to limit people to their skill level.
 
Minnesota will be statewide rifle in 2026. Individual counties can opt out however.
The counties I hunt in will be rifle.
I've talked with some of the farmers that are near or ajoin the properties we hunt and about half will NOT allow rifle hunting on their farms (that's fine, it's their property) and I don't have an issue with it.
Range is a big part of this. I did not and will not debate with a farmer on who or what type of gear he allows on his land ITS HIS LAND.
 
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I see Wyoming is discussing a range (distance) limit for hunting.
In part they're saying it takes the fair chase part out of the sport. I haven't seen any suggestions as to what distances they're looking at though.
Regardless of what side of the fence you're on in this, how could a distance limit be enforced in the field besides physically seeing the shot and measuring the distance.
Personally I strive to limit my hunting shots to something inside of 30 yards. May be worth mentioning that I am talking about hunting with a vertical bow in this case. Getting close is the thrill. Taking the shot is the less satisfying aspect, for this archer.
 

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