Hunting range limit

[Doug Casner]

We dont need centerfires anyway. I watched part of dances with wolves and they were hunting buffalo with stick bows and arrows. When they shot a buffalo with a bow, he went down like he was hit with a flak 88. Ah, hollywood. Doug

 

[Frankm]

They, F&G, need to appear to be managing/protecting the animals while extending seasons, hunting animals for 5-6 mths of the year, etc.

Reality is they re most concerned with protecting their income streams, more staff, more buildings/offices, etc. Typical beauracy …..

Think they ll allow the animals to start carrying firearms next ??

 

[Doug Casner]

I think my terrier could figure out a single shot. Doug

 

[Evan]

I wonder if a more enforceable rule might be letting game wardens ticket people for poorly shot animals. See a hunter packing out an animal riddled with bullet holes through its rump and gut, write them a ticket for unethical hunting.

A distance limit feels the same as a magazine limit law - unenforceable pearl clutching that doesn’t address the problem.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Are they going to require you carry a rangefinder and deploy it before every shot? Seems unrealistic.

They definitely should educate the public better about the low probability of a humane kill at extended ranges even if you can bang steel at 1000 yards easily.

 

[450BM]

I don't know which country - or countries it is, but seems like Scandinavian moose hunting. You've gotta prove your proficiency before you can even get a tag. The logic of that is obvious, but most of us Muricans don't hold with that kind of control.

The beauty - and the ugly - of real freedom, is that you've got the freedom to be stupid if ya want. jd

I’ve attended a lot of archery festivals (Forksville PA) and am always amazed at how good some are with their bow and how bad some are. I’m not sure I’d want government workers deciding who could hunt or not though. Maybe if it was group of our piers it would work but probably only in the beginning. It would eventually turn into an HOA situation…

 

[450BM]

Idaho did something along those lines. They put a 17 lb limit on rifles. A lot of out of state hunters just started fluting barrels. A friend at F&G says there are a lot of 16 lb 12 ounce rifles out there these days.

The problem with government writing hunting laws is they probably don’t know what they’re talking about to begin with. I’ll give you a Pennsylvania example that really chaps my butt:

Air rifles that are legal to hunt squirrels with in PA: .177 - 22 caliber. I have a .25 caliber PCP (FX Impact) that will easily outshoot most 22 rimfires and it’s illegal for me to use for squirrels. But, any 12 year old with a .177 cal air gun is allowed in the woods to wound or maim any squirrel he can fling pellets at. Possibly they don’t want larger projectiles to be fired in the air but they don’t give that as a reason. And if it is that, my pellets are lighter than 22 RF bullets but 22 RF are legal.

So figure that one out…

 

[ISS]

Yeah, common sense at work here by know-nothings. I shoot a Panthera 22, but I am looking at a 25 and the new FX.

 

[450BM]

Yeah, common sense at work here by know-nothings. I shoot a Panthera 22, but I am looking at a 25 and the new FX.

I keep thinking about a 22 slug liner for it but really don’t need it. (Well, maybe so I could “legally” hunt squirrels). I get 140 shots per fill with pellets in the 850 fps range and it’s stupid accurate. Don’t think I’d really gain anything.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Idaho did something along those lines. They put a 17 lb limit on rifles. A lot of out of state hunters just started fluting barrels. A friend at F&G says there are a lot of 16 lb 12 ounce rifles out there these days.

That was only to stop guys from using 50 cals and trying to shoot elk at a mile.

My LR hunting/target rifles all weigh right around 16-17#. They're just easier to shoot. And yes I do pack them up and down the mountains...

 

[Tangent]

The best way to deal with all of this is culture. Encourage people to self regulate to ensure they get clean kills. It won't stop poor behaviour but it's much better than encouraging it. The way I see it ethics aren't about the target it's about who you are and how you see yourself if you do something unethical. If you are l care you'll operate within your capabilities.

It's the responsibility, a dirty word these days, of adults to educate children on these values. It makes for much better adults and a better society. I think the attempts to regulate are often the substitute, and some in power think they can create a prefect world with laws. You can't micromanage a population like that without becoming authoritarian. Much better to encourage responsibility and why shame is such a useful emotion, it helps people to regulate their own actions.

 

[Jeff Porter]

In Illinois, big game ( deer ) is limited to slug guns and now limited single shot center fire rounds. I used to hunt coyotes hard and always had people wanting me to take them out so they could use a rifle to hunt with. The 1/4 mile coyote was a common comment for the newbies because they had watched all the action on the hunting videos. I had access to a 350 yard pasture and would take anyone who wanted to hunt with me out to make sure their rifles were zeroed and they could shoot them and to set what I called their Lethal Range where we could expect a clean hit on a coyote. I would scatter 2 L bottles filled with water from 50 yards out to about 200 yards and then milk jugs of water from there to 350. My “rule” was shoot any target to start and only shoot farther after making a hit. I allowed one follow up shot in the test, second miss you were done. Shooting was from their choice of field position, not a bench. Usually sitting with sticks or bipod.

Most guys had found their “Lethal range” inside 200 yards most closer to 100, some never got a hit. Eye opening to many that the rifles don’t shoot themsleves. Or that they can shoot bagged up on a bench but not from a field position. Luckily, I like to call them in close so shots over 75 yards are not that likely.

 

[jds holler]

I love your method Jeff. ^^^^^
It puts Real World skill into the equation.
Another one I'd like to see for folks - even ones who have the skill to hit an object at long range - is to try to find the object they shot in real conditions at say 3, 4, or even 500 yards. By real conditions, I mean brushy, woody, desert sage, etc.

Putting a bullet in an elk or deer at five hundred yards is pretty easy sometimes, compared to hiking out and finding the animal or it's tracks so you can determine if you in fact hit it or even killed it.

Back when I was much younger and stupider, I did in fact drop a deer in the desert - stone dead heart shot - at over 500 yards. It was sundown when I fired the shot, and we found the deer at around 10 PM that night after an incredible fiasco. All I can say is that 500 yards is a big area to search and try to judge where the animal was standing.
jd

 

[searcher]

I’m not a fan of most branches, but I do like game laws.

I know what you mean though. We have enough rules as it is.

I think we will have more types of problems with game management in the long run for a variety or reasons, including dwindling huntable land, our modern rifles and ammo which are considerably effective for the average shooter, the advent and proliferation of range-finding gear, etc. - and the critters are, overall, hunted much more effectively. The thought of big-game critters getting killed for the production of YouTube videos saddens me. I could see that becoming illegal due to the potential profit made from hunting. While I don't think range shooting limitations should be applied across the board, I'd not be opposed to a proficiency field test if they could be done locally and not cost more than a nominal admin fee, as run by the NRA or such - and not be required every single season. If nothing else, it might result in more animals afield due to less being wounded and lost - whereby the shooter unethically opts to shoot another. It brings to mind a neighbor I had many years ago. He went hunting and, upon his return, I asked how the hunt went. He said "it was fantastic - we shot ALL our ammo up and had to make TWO more runs into town to buy more." I remember thinking "man - glad I wasn't around there..." Dang bonehead.

 

[howl]

I can think of a couple of ways to find that figure. Lots of rules are made with no expectation of complete enforcement. If they make a rule, and enforce it enough for the law abiding to hear about it, then most people follow the rule.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I think we have all seen what results from more laws, fewer officers. I'd rather get back to common sense and a visible law enforcement officer doing their job(and a judge who follows sentencing code).

 

[Greatgrandad]

Through my years, I have seen far more game wounded and crippled by hunters at shorter ranges than I have ever seen by true LR shooters.

 

[L.Sherm]

Through my years, I have seen far more game wounded and crippled by hunters at shorter ranges than I have ever seen by true LR shooters.

This is a fact, some shouldn't be out there shooting a 100 yards. Ive seen good shots at a range shooting pretty far with rifle and bow but loose it when a big buck or Bull is in there range you can't make a law for that.

 

[LAH]

A man's got to know his limitation's. It's simple as that.

^^^^This^^^^ applies to most things in life & it is SIMPLE as that.

 

[David Milisock]

Are they going to require you carry a rangefinder and deploy it before every shot? Seems unrealistic.

They definitely should educate the public better about the low probability of a humane kill at extended ranges even if you can bang steel at 1000 yards easily.

What is a humane kill? I'm sure that definition varies.

I just had this discussion with a minister who was working up Elk loads for a 6.5PRC, he was capable of placing 2.5" groups at 300 yards. He said that he felt that due to his marksmanship 300 yards was his limit, I agreed with him.

I shared my thoughts, I had taken Elk at 600 yards with one shot, but preferred a larger caliber at longer ranges even though my 358 Norma is capable of 1 1/8" groups at 300 yards. My concern with smaller calibers is repeatable bullet performance.

The question that begs is this; can some government regulation provide more concentration and effort on humane kills than the actions taken and the conversation between myself and this gentleman?