Here’s how the Red Flag scenario will happen.

[300_whisper]

A LEO friend posted this elsewhere, thought I would share:

I’m curious who Beto O’Rourke’s “we” are? Local LE Administrators won’t want any part of snatching up weapons from people who are not involved in any sort of actual crime. Federal LE won’t want any part of going house to house and engaging in any sort of forced take back. The military couldn’t be used due to the Posse Comitatus act forbidding them to be used on American soil.

This doesn’t even begin to touch on the fact that most LE employees, fed or municipal, want nothing to do with it and in fact, overwhelmingly support people’s right to bear arms.

Texas, take your imbecile back, please. I’m in California and have my own to deal with.

O’Rourke is a pandering moron. When he speaks Spanish my skin crawls. So gross how fake he is.

 

[fantastic]

Its gonna lead to a civil war and the democrats don't even care. it will lead to chaos and they dont give a bleep, and that is really the problem here.

 

[USMCDOC]

Its gonna lead to a civil war and the democrats don't even care. it will lead to chaos and they dont give a bleep, and that is really the problem here.

They want it.. it is their belief that it is assurance to power.. they think that they will win..

 

[fantastic]

They want it.. it is their believe that it is assurance to power.. they think that they will win..

In the name of democracy and civilization... we expect politicians to represent us and do the things that they are elected for but they go into office, become popular, rich and forget the reason they got elected...They always do this. At this point i am thinking Democracy is not working anymore.

 

[USMCDOC]

In the name of democracy and civilization... we expect politicians to represent us and do the things that they are elected for but they go into office, become popular, rich and forget the reason they got elected...They always do this. At this point i am thinking Democracy is not working anymore.

There is one fallacy to your statement.. we are not a "Democracy".. We are a REPUBLIC!

 

[fantastic]

There is one fallacy to your statement.. we are not a "Democracy".. We are a REPUBLIC!

So the American democracy is all a mirage ? then what's stopping me from shooting anyone that bring red flag to my door steps ? we live by a democratic constitution and laws and this is what the democrats are using against us. They have made it unlawful for people to protect themselves. Now Kalama Harris wants people to start eating some kinda bugs, before you know it eating meat and hunting will son be illegal because hunting Animal is murder... All in the name if democracy and civilization.... we swallow all this with a pinch of salt and hope it gets better but they are dragging the country downward. If i ask you "what's you vision or prediction of the United states in the next twenty years" what would be your answer ?

ME: More illegals, More tax, more mass murder, More gun laws, more riots and a Democrats party president that is gonna sell us out to the Muslims.

 

[338 Mollett]

I had a crew member that was on parole for 6 months.In that time one Friday after a hard week of digging post holes we got a flavor for a beer so I treated the boys.We weren't at the bar 30 min. when the door opened up and two state troopers pointed at my guy and said come on.He was taken to his house where it was torn upside down looking for a weapon.What had happened ,his ex saw his car and called the police claiming he had a gun just out of spite.Make no mistake these red flag laws will be abused !

 

[Raythemanroe]

So the American democracy is all a mirage ? then what's stopping me from shooting anyone that bring red flag to my door steps ? we live by a democratic constitution and laws and this is what the democrats are using against us. They have made it unlawful for people to protect themselves. Now Kalama Harris wants people to start eating some kinda bugs, before you know it eating meat and hunting will son be illegal because hunting Animal is murder... All in the name if democracy and civilization.... we swallow all this with a pinch of salt and hope it gets better but they are dragging the country downward. If i ask you "what's you vision or prediction of the United states in the next twenty years" what would be your answer ?

ME: More illegals, More tax, more mass murder, More gun laws, more riots and a Democrats party president that is gonna sell us out to the Muslims.

Republic, a constitutional rule of law. Democrats have successfully taken care of a "republic" with the "public" school system.. Now everyone thinks it's a democracy and popular public opinion trumps law.. Media does a darn good job pushing it.

Ray

 

[338 dude]

Yep, pretty much all my thoughts....
Except the real reason this is all happening. People have changed. All I hope is people realize what has happened and there is still enough to turn the times. I hope and some times see there is real people still out there.

I really think that if some thing like this happens it will be turned over and block by the supreme court as unlawful due to no due process. Remember the 2nd ammendment, there is also an amendment that assures us of due process.

Unfortunately it has been happening already

 

[JFrank]

Wow
Y’all are all fired up this morning

 

[spencerhenry]

I’m not aware of any state that allows an ex-spouse to file for a red flag order.

I believe in Colorado an ex is capable of initiating it. But, ANY law enforcement person can. So, an ex gets mad, calls the cops and makes up a lie. The cop then initiates the red flag proceedings.
I have already had it happen to me, without the red flag law. A person I never met, had only passed on the road, didn't know anything about her, or where she lived, didn't know a name, nothing. She had recently moved into the neighborhood, where I have several neighbors that hate me, hate me for being successful, and for being a gun owner that shoots regularly. The neighbors had "educated" her about me.
Out of the blue one day I get a call saying that I am to be served an order of protection. Did I mention that I had no idea who this person was? I had to move out of MY house of 20 years to comply with the details of the order. When it came to court, THREE weeks later, she admitted that she had NO first hand knowledge of any of the things she accused me of, one of which was stalking. She admitted that she had only been told what a bad dude I was. When she found out that she would have to testify under oath, she dropped the whole issue. She then had the balls to ask the judge to have me pay half of the fees to file and serve me!
It was also apparent in the application for the protection order that the cop that took the call had coached her on what to say, and how to say it.
It cost me 3 weeks of my life turned upside down, and $6000 in attorneys fees! Do I have any recourse to recover that? NO!
The red flag laws will be abused, there are plenty more people like me who have already been dragged through the mud before the red flag law. The red flag law only makes it easier for them to take away your rights and steal your property and bankrupt you in the process.
Think you have done nothing anyone can "red flag" you for? Think again, people these days will lie about anyone. Perhaps they just want to harass you until you sell your house and move, perhaps they just enjoy causing other people grief, perhaps they are seeking the attention provided by news paper articles and cops taking their statements. But, one way or another, people will suffer under red flag laws for having done nothing. Just being a gun owner is enough to be targeted.

 

[JimT]

I believe in Colorado an ex is capable of initiating it. But, ANY law enforcement person can. So, an ex gets mad, calls the cops and makes up a lie. The cop then initiates the red flag proceedings.
I have already had it happen to me, without the red flag law. A person I never met, had only passed on the road, didn't know anything about her, or where she lived, didn't know a name, nothing. She had recently moved into the neighborhood, where I have several neighbors that hate me, hate me for being successful, and for being a gun owner that shoots regularly. The neighbors had "educated" her about me.
Out of the blue one day I get a call saying that I am to be served an order of protection. Did I mention that I had no idea who this person was? I had to move out of MY house of 20 years to comply with the details of the order. When it came to court, THREE weeks later, she admitted that she had NO first hand knowledge of any of the things she accused me of, one of which was stalking. She admitted that she had only been told what a bad dude I was. When she found out that she would have to testify under oath, she dropped the whole issue. She then had the balls to ask the judge to have me pay half of the fees to file and serve me!
It was also apparent in the application for the protection order that the cop that took the call had coached her on what to say, and how to say it.
It cost me 3 weeks of my life turned upside down, and $6000 in attorneys fees! Do I have any recourse to recover that? NO!
The red flag laws will be abused, there are plenty more people like me who have already been dragged through the mud before the red flag law. The red flag law only makes it easier for them to take away your rights and steal your property and bankrupt you in the process.
Think you have done nothing anyone can "red flag" you for? Think again, people these days will lie about anyone. Perhaps they just want to harass you until you sell your house and move, perhaps they just enjoy causing other people grief, perhaps they are seeking the attention provided by news paper articles and cops taking their statements. But, one way or another, people will suffer under red flag laws for having done nothing. Just being a gun owner is enough to be targeted.

I stand corrected.

It appears under Colorado’s red flag law you would have never gotten very far under your set of facts since the petitioner must:


“submit an affidavit signed under oath and penalty of perjury that sets forth facts to support the issuance of a temporary ERPO and a reasonable basis for believing they exist.”


https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb19-1177

 

[spencerhenry]

I stand corrected.

It appears under Colorado’s red flag law you would have never gotten very far under your set of facts since the petitioner must:


“submit an affidavit signed under oath and penalty of perjury that sets forth facts to support the issuance of a temporary ERPO and a reasonable basis for believing they exist.”


https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb19-1177

That's fine and dandy, but I have seen the system abused.
My previous post was not a hypothetical, it happened. In theory it shouldn't have, but it did. She had ZERO physical evidence. On one occasions she claimed that I had cussed her out and threatened her on a specific date and time. My phone records showed that I was 40 miles away during that time. Did anyone care? NOPE.
The red flag law just makes it easier. There are plenty in law enforcement that will NOT verify that the statements are truthful. And, unless you have an unlimited budget to force the issue, I doubt anyone will ever be prosecuted for making up statements about someone they "feel" is dangerous. How many times have fathers been accused of sexual abuse of their kids, only to find out the ex-wife put the kid up to it or the kid was angry over being denied money or a new phone? It happens all the time, if the liars are prosecuted, we sure don't hear about it.
In my previous case, I asked my attorney if I could go after her to recover costs, I was told that once the judge signs the order, they petitioner is pretty much off the hook. Its pretty hard to prove that someone didn't believe what they said about you. I was told the standard was that you had to PROVE that the person KNEW the information was false.
I don't care what the law says, it WILL be abused. It WILL ruin many lives. It will result in people losing their guns, and every dollar they have trying to recover them.

 

[300_whisper]

That's fine and dandy, but I have seen the system abused.
My previous post was not a hypothetical, it happened. In theory it shouldn't have, but it did. She had ZERO physical evidence. On one occasions she claimed that I had cussed her out and threatened her on a specific date and time. My phone records showed that I was 40 miles away during that time. Did anyone care? NOPE.
The red flag law just makes it easier. There are plenty in law enforcement that will NOT verify that the statements are truthful. And, unless you have an unlimited budget to force the issue, I doubt anyone will ever be prosecuted for making up statements about someone they "feel" is dangerous. How many times have fathers been accused of sexual abuse of their kids, only to find out the ex-wife put the kid up to it or the kid was angry over being denied money or a new phone? It happens all the time, if the liars are prosecuted, we sure don't hear about it.
In my previous case, I asked my attorney if I could go after her to recover costs, I was told that once the judge signs the order, they petitioner is pretty much off the hook. Its pretty hard to prove that someone didn't believe what they said about you. I was told the standard was that you had to PROVE that the person KNEW the information was false.
I don't care what the law says, it WILL be abused. It WILL ruin many lives. It will result in people losing their guns, and every dollar they have trying to recover them.

Yup, knew a guy from school who stopped a domestic dispute at fort Lewis. The girlfriend, my acquaintance rescued, was so abused and “owned”, for lack of a better term, by her boyfriend that he convinced her to tell the cops that my aquintance was raping her and that’s how they got into the fight.

So 3 years later and $55k in legal fees my acquaintance was proven innocent. She finally broke up with her boyfriend and came clean 3 years later. He was discharged from the army and has an accusation on his record for life, even though he was innocent.

People lie and abuse the system all the time. Doesn’t matter what the law says. What matters is how much time and money you have as the defendant.

 

[spclark]

What matters is how much time and money you have as the defendant.

Right as rain.

 

[300_whisper]

Wow
Y’all are all fired up this morning

Yup, I wake up every morning realizing someone pissed in my wheaties!!

 

[people]

Yup, knew a guy from school who stopped a domestic dispute at fort Lewis. The girlfriend, my acquaintance rescued, was so abused and “owned”, for lack of a better term, by her boyfriend that he convinced her to tell the cops that my aquintance was raping her and that’s how they got into the fight.

So 3 years later and $55k in legal fees my acquaintance was proven innocent. She finally broke up with her boyfriend and came clean 3 years later. He was discharged from the army and has an accusation on his record for life, even though he was innocent.

People lie and abuse the system all the time. Doesn’t matter what the law says. What matters is how much time and money you have as the defendant.

Like they say no good deed goes unpunished.

If I was in his position I would keep her in court until she had nothing.

 

[300_whisper]

Like they say no good deed goes unpunished.

If I was in his position I would keep her in court until she had nothing.

He tried. His lawyer literally said “and get what out of it? More legal fees?”

The lawyer said they would have to prove that she did it on her own free will and maliciously. She could easily play the battered, weak female, who was put in a bad position by her ex card. The world we live in.

 

[fyrewall]

There is one fallacy to your statement.. we are not a "Democracy".. We are a REPUBLIC!

Banana republic?

 

[davidjoe]

A LEO friend posted this elsewhere, thought I would share:

I’m curious who Beto O’Rourke’s “we” are? Local LE Administrators won’t want any part of snatching up weapons from people who are not involved in any sort of actual crime. Federal LE won’t want any part of going house to house and engaging in any sort of forced take back. The military couldn’t be used due to the Posse Comitatus act forbidding them to be used on American soil.

This doesn’t even begin to touch on the fact that most LE employees, fed or municipal, want nothing to do with it and in fact, overwhelmingly support people’s right to bear arms.

Texas, take your imbecile back, please. I’m in California and have my own to deal with.

We all heard the sickening applause for Beto’s “taking” away AR’s and AK’s. I’m personally very concerned he has a supportive “we” in this country. 3 million more voters cast theirs for Hillary than for Trump, after all, knowing full well that Bill Clinton had imposed the 10 year ban.

What your LEO friend doesn’t say - quite understandably in a post - is that he thinks they just won’t do it if ordered. That they would sooner quit. If my young son was in law enforcement looking at such a decision some day, I’d call him up and assure him he doesn’t need that job, and be prepared to help cover his loss. Just like I’d recommend he do if he were ordered to turn his back on protecting the speech and safety of the speaker in an unpopular cause, or harangue a place of worship.