Bill. Try to get a copy of the August 2012 issue of Precision Shooting. There was an article testing different coatings MS2, HBN, WS2 and Lubalox on Nato 223 bullets and it was co-authored by Cadets at the United States Air Force. Maybe you can try digging it up on line. I did years ago. It was very interesting reading. If I remember correctly HBN lowered friction the most but by very little. In fact I believe the friction percentage was really low like 10-15 percent is my memory serves me correctly but don't hold me to it. Look it up for yourself.
HBN COATING ?
- Thread starter Bill Norris
- Start date
WOW Thanks Bro Will try to see if I can find that.
That mirrors my experience.
It's gonna be how long you can go between cleaning before it drops off and reduced copper fouling. I also like it during break in. Truth, but I should probably go fix some popcorn now. Lol!
Yea, I'm really enjoying this thread for sure. I think lots of shooters will gain knowledge from threads like this.
Mike I've experienced little to no copper fouling whatsoever with any of my barrels using HBN. I don't use coated bullets to break in a new barrel though. Always use naked bullets for that. I only break my barrels in with 10 rounds. Has worked very well for me. I use the Gale McMillan break in procedure.
It can get as bad as best bore cleaner threads. You can pm or call me any time but I'm gonna bow out of here. Call and I'll walk ya through my process. Very easy but again..many opinions. Not saying some are wrong but I'll give you mine that works well for me.
Last edited:
There have been many threads on it. You can search ws2 or hbn and probably read all night.
I have had bad experience with HBN. Maybe I got wrong type, not sure.
I got 5 micron powder. It coated bullets fine, bullets felt slippery in hands. Powder is so fine that I didn’t feel good about it indoors, so I did the process outside and kept all bottles, separator etc in shed.
First thing I noticed was that whenever I had to pull a bullet out for whatever reason, bullet was badly scratched where it was seated in the neck. Before someone asks, I used 2 thou neck tension.
Secondly, my Bartlien 308 barrel went south with less than 1000 rounds. When my buddy’s gunsmith looked at it, he described that throat had badly eroded. I used 215 hybrids and H4350 powder to push them 2570 fps.
Again, just my experience.
I got 5 micron powder. It coated bullets fine, bullets felt slippery in hands. Powder is so fine that I didn’t feel good about it indoors, so I did the process outside and kept all bottles, separator etc in shed.
First thing I noticed was that whenever I had to pull a bullet out for whatever reason, bullet was badly scratched where it was seated in the neck. Before someone asks, I used 2 thou neck tension.
Secondly, my Bartlien 308 barrel went south with less than 1000 rounds. When my buddy’s gunsmith looked at it, he described that throat had badly eroded. I used 215 hybrids and H4350 powder to push them 2570 fps.
Again, just my experience.
Hoot
Silver $$ Contributor
I've used all three. Started out with MoS2, then WS2 and finally HBN. Not that my rifles suffer from leaving the bores dirty for any length of time but I got spooked by the fact that the first two are hygroscopic but not HBN. So, I've been using HBN for a handful of years now and yeah, the copper fouling is minimal to non-existent but it's hard to tell visually, whether you've laid down enough HBN. At least with MoS2 and WS2, all it took was one look to tell. I'm torn sometimes between going back to nude copper versus plated. I realize that "doubt kills" but being unable to really quantify the degree of HBN deposited makes me worry about the impact from each batch I process due to laying down different amounts. I use SS BB sized balls that have a matte finish to tumble. Its certainly less messy where clean up is concerned. I use .070 micron powder FWIW.
Hoot
Hoot
R.Morehouse
Gold $$ Contributor
I use HBN " Tubb Dust " in the 30 Major. I use the stuff David Tubb sells. Some call it "snake oil ", but I do enjoy his videos on the subject and I found it easy to use and cleaning is a breeze. I have a small Thumbler vibrator and a plastic bottle. I just put a handful of bullets and the correct amount of "Tubb Dust" in and let her run for the proper time. Dump it out onto an old towel and roll them around a bit and they are good to go.......Between the ease of cleaning and the extremely long barrel/brass life of the 30Major, I find myself thinking, why do I even screw with my PPC.....
.....But I Do.......And really love it, for some strange reason....
Regards
Rick
.....But I Do.......And really love it, for some strange reason....Regards
Rick
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
+1^^^ Exactly my experience with the HBN. We bought the kit from Tubbs and just followed the instructions. There's another supplier of HBN (might be the Lower Friction place Mike spoke of) and it works just the same. We do wipe off any "excess" after coating.
A few horror stories out there about it, but that's nothing new. JME. WD
Sample size of one, but I left a dirty moly barrel for 8 years with no issues.
Peterson1
Gold $$ Contributor
I used it(HBn) for about 4-5 years.
I used Moly for about 15 years on Prarie Dog guns
Reason was to reduce cleaning frequency
I do not use either now--Dont go Prarie Doging now however.
Have found that the powders now have something "Magical" in them that reduces the copper deposits in the barrel.
I now go longer than some in cleaning and use no "additives" .
"I still do not like cleaning guns"
Its the necessary evil of shooting!
FWIW--I do clean as determined by Boroscope
CLP
I used Moly for about 15 years on Prarie Dog guns
Reason was to reduce cleaning frequency
I do not use either now--Dont go Prarie Doging now however.
Have found that the powders now have something "Magical" in them that reduces the copper deposits in the barrel.
I now go longer than some in cleaning and use no "additives" .
"I still do not like cleaning guns"
Its the necessary evil of shooting!
FWIW--I do clean as determined by Boroscope
CLP
I have had great luck with moly as well. My go to bullet coating in most of my rifles. Pith helmet and flame suit on! Ok, let me have it! Braced and ready! Lol.
Paul
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
I've been shooting moly for so long, I'm scared to even shoot a bare bullet...
One benefit I noticed is I don't get "neck/bullet weld" . As to the friction reduction, all I know is that you cant pick a bullet up by the tip after handling coated bullets. I have read that it increases barrel life, don't know, but with the cost of rebarreling, I'll take the chance.rsbhunter
IME, WS2 has very little effect either way on bbl life. It simply reduces copper fouling, reduces the time to clean.. some and extends how many rounds between cleanings before I see any fall off in accuracy. Nothing magic except it's almost like magic in these regards. People expecting an increase in velocity or accuracy are just barking up the wrong tree and expecting something unrealistic from a simple coating. I've even shot many small groups round robin, naked and coated in the same hole but not all barrels will do that the same every time. Bottome line is that coatings are not magical but some do very well at what I was hoping for from them. I never expected too much so I was/am happy with my results. I've won matches with 400 rounds on the bbl since cleaning, more than once. Some might call that significant(I would) and I call it good reason to keep doing what works for me. Again, other than it being a little bit messy to do, I see nothing but upside to using ws2. YMMV but I doubt it, if you keep your expectations realistic. To my knowledge, there are no coatings that guarantee zeros.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.