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Generators & Battery back up

bobcat93 said:
Is any one running a big old generator like the one i post pic up above?
Are those worth restoring just to do what im talking about.
If i restored one of those old power plants, and built a nice shed for it to live life in ..i bet it would outlast my grand children.
Hell any generator built today will give ya about 5yrs of service and die..just like the new 2025 automobile..engineered to last 5-7yrs and completely fall apart

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Your joking. Right?
 
Natural gas (if available) is the only way to go. Even the local Propane dealer told me that he couldn't get near the natural gas price. Not mentioned is that you either pay monthly rent or have to buy the storage tank for Propane (they are not cheap),

Didn't Ford have a commercial that one of their hybrid pickups could power a house for a couple of day?
 
That is a beast! Back in January of 2009, here in Southern Indiana and a good bit of the Midwest we had probably 1 of the worst ice storms on record. South of me in Kentucky, there were folks without power for like 15-18 days or so, a long time! Broken limbs were the big issue in the service area. In the years since the power company has a contract tree trimming crew clearing limbs almost year round, our outages are minimal anymore. We had ice a few weeks ago. Some folks lost power for a couple days or so. Lights just flickered a few times for me but you get all the ideas in your head that have been discussed the last few days right here!
 
shamrock12 said:
Wow, how many kW is that unit?

Judging by the age of new generator and the old concrete pad, it would appear you might have recently replaced an older generator? The copper tubing looks fresh (which BTW probably could have been routed and protected better than as is now)
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I think that “copper tubing” is an extension cord for a battery trickler. It looks like my 20 KW.
 
joshb said:
I think that “copper tubing” is an extension cord for a battery trickler. It looks like my 20 KW.
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You are correct. The trickle chargers that Generac installs are junk. I keep an 1 amp battery maintainer on the battery at all times.


The pad was a used one the Generac dealer had. They darn near gave it to me to close the deal.

A unit like this runs about $13,000. Of course, you also have to get the huge transfer switch, all of the electrical hook up, plus the gas line hook up. That has to come off of the meter. They will not splice into an existing line. Since the electrical box is on the other side of the house, they went through the attic with the power lines.
This is not a do it yourself installation. With all of the permits, generator, parts, and labor, I think our total installation bill was around $22,000.
 
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jackieschmidt said:
You are correct. The trickle chargers that Generac installs are junk. I keep an 1 amp battery maintainer on the battery at all times.

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I found out not all maintainers are equal. I bought a couple that charged at 15.5 volts. Trashed them and spent the extra money for better ones.
 
Why not more diesels?
---------------------------------------------------
One reason is, Here in the US anyway
Gas gensets are cheap, it is not even worth taking one to a shop for repair when you can just buy a new one for cheaper than repair costs would be.
I run a repair shop and used to be a Generator mechanic when going through college so know a little about them
One customer brought me a generac 4kw motorhome model asking if I could fix it
With a new circuit board and other items it needed.... it would have costs $1000 to fix
Now compare the repair cost of an old genset to.............
$400 for a brand new 4KW model at Lowes...........and Lowes usually has them for "right now!"
When people need a genset they need it "Right Now' and is when most people end up buying their first,
the power goes out and they decide they want a genset... so go out to their local hardware store and buy the cheapest thing they can get by with for the few days power outages occur in a year.
Which around here in my area... is Not very often out of 365 days
-------------------------------------------
At Lowes .......Diesel Rigs start at about $3000
------------------------------------------
Many people are cheap when it comes to a genset and figure it a disposeable item when it wears out and just buy another one. (Including myself because I hardly ever run my gas unit as well)
But I also do have a 500 Amp Diesel Welder with 12 KW genset I can use as a backup if my gas unit goes bad so I also have no reason to pay more than $500 for a portable gas unit.
So even though a Diesel unit may be better in many ways
You can get 7 Gas rigs for the price of 1 Diesel
 
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jackieschmidt said:
You are correct. The trickle chargers that Generac installs are junk. I keep an 1 amp battery maintainer on the battery at all times.


The pad was a used one the Generac dealer had. They darn near gave it to me to close the deal.

A unit like this runs about $13,000. Of course, you also have to get the huge transfer switch, all of the electrical hook up, plus the gas line hook up. That has to come off of the meter. They will not splice into an existing line. Since the electrical box is on the other side of the house, they went through the attic with the power lines.
This is not a do it yourself installation. With all of the permits, generator, parts, and labor, I think our total installation bill was around $22,000.
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Are you sure it’s 20kW? Never seen a 20kW steel enclosed Generac unit and it looks quite larger than their poly enclosed 20kW units. Yes everything is expensive nowadays but $13k for a 20kW standalone unit without transfer switch, etc. seems quite steep.
 
Put a pencil to it:
What do you REALLY need to run.
What needs to run at the same time.
How many times have you lost power past several years and how long was it out.

My own case. I built my house 25 years ago. It has a transfer switch on a secondary panel. Turn everything off, switch on as needed. One single line of lights (very little power needed), microwave, refrigerator, pellet stove for heat. I have a 2500 gallon cistern for water. I can run this on a very small generator.
 
jackieschmidt said:
You are correct. The trickle chargers that Generac installs are junk. I keep an 1 amp battery maintainer on the battery at all times.


The pad was a used one the Generac dealer had. They darn near gave it to me to close the deal.

A unit like this runs about $13,000. Of course, you also have to get the huge transfer switch, all of the electrical hook up, plus the gas line hook up. That has to come off of the meter. They will not splice into an existing line. Since the electrical box is on the other side of the house, they went through the attic with the power lines.
This is not a do it yourself installation. With all of the permits, generator, parts, and labor, I think our total installation bill was around $22,000.
Click to expand...
That’s about what I spent. Our purchase was a perfect example of the differences between me and my wife. My electrician arrived, we mapped out what necessary things I wanted to run in the house and decided on a 5kw machine. I told him we should “check with the wife” to see if she had anything extra she wanted to add to the “run” list. We found my wife and asked her what she wanted to “run” on the generator during a black out. She said “Everything!” We wound up with a 20kw.
 
ELR LVR said:
I know my 150AH battery bank goes down much quicker than what is theortical time wise
I can run my TV for about 5 hours on 150 AH watching DVD's or whatever before the low voltage alarm sounds
That is ionly roughly a 4 amp total draw
Theoretically I should be able to go 37 hours
150 AH / 4 Amps = 37
So there are many factors that contribute to time loss in battery banks,
I use 6 feet of 2/0 copper welding cable going from battery to the inverter as well to minimize voltage loss
So I dont know what is going on there with my real world available usage time compared to theoretical
Click to expand...

If your using 4 amps @ 120 volts, your using 38 amps at 12.6 volts, so 150 AH would be dead in approximately 4 hours. Inverters are not very efficient either. Cheap ones might consume 30% converting from DC to AC with heat loss.
 
shamrock12 said:
Are you sure it’s 20kW? Never seen a 20kW steel enclosed Generac unit and it looks quite larger than their poly enclosed 20kW units. Yes everything is expensive nowadays but $13k for a 20kW standalone unit without transfer switch, etc. seems quite steep.
Click to expand...
It’s a 28KW unit.
As you probably know, the liquid cooled units are a little more expensive than the air cooled.

I figure as old as I am, it will out live me.
 
SmittyJon said:
Yes, you're right, Sacre. Buy enough generator to run only what's necessary.

Those huge units remind me of friend who always bought 1 ton, heavy duty, 4 wheel drive, pickups, even though he'd seldom need that much capacity. He'd then bitterly complain about the purchase price, gas mileage, the cost of tires and parts. I told him it would be a lot cheaper in the long run to buy less truck, and hire-rent something heavy duty only when needed. Did he take that advice? Right! Might as well have talked to the nearest telephone pole. :(

Obviously, this does not apply to those folks who have large homes, operations, farms, ect., that require a lot of standby power when the grid goes fails.

SJ
Click to expand...
Our house is around 5200 sq ft. I decided I would not be without power. I have been there and done that.

As for the advantages of Natural Gas, I have lived on the Gulf Coast my entire life, and have been through countless hurricanes that will knock the power out. Through it all, I have never seen the Natural Gas turned off.
 
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xr650rRider said:
If your using 4 amps @ 120 volts, your using 38 amps at 12.6 volts, so 150 AH would be dead in approximately 4 hours. Inverters are not very efficient either. Cheap ones might consume 30% converting from DC to AC with heat loss.
Click to expand...
I put a clamp meter on the 2/0 leg 12 volt lead coming from the bank of 12 volt batteries going to the inverter
reads 3- 4 amps on the 12 volt legs for what I usually do
----------------------
Thanks for your post
I do understand how 4x 120 = 460 watts
just as 12.6 x 38 = approx the same wattage of useage
----------------------
I am also new to the LIFEPO batteries and their depth of charge in relation to their voltage
When fully charged it shows 13.3
Last night I ran a pump that draws approx 5 amps for HOURRRRRS
and the batteries never went below 13.02
So perhaps I did not have them charged fully thinking 12.9 to 13.0 is enough
these batteries are very sensitive to 0.1 volt of charge
 
ELR LVR said:
I put a clamp meter on the 2/0 leg 12 volt lead coming from the bank of 12 volt batteries going to the inverter
reads 3- 4 amps on the 12 volt legs for what I usually do
----------------------
Thanks for your post
I do understand how 4x 120 = 460 watts
just as 12.6 x 38 = approx the same wattage of useage
----------------------
I am also new to the LIFEPO batteries and their depth of charge in relation to their voltage
When fully charged it shows 13.3
Last night I ran a pump that draws approx 5 amps for HOURRRRRS
and the batteries never went below 13.02
So perhaps I did not have them charged fully thinking 12.9 to 13.0 is enough
these batteries are very sensitive to 0.1 volt of charge
Click to expand...

Hopefully you had a hall-effect clamp on or it won't read DC amperage. LiFEPO4 12 volt batteries need a special charger that outputs at least 14.2-14.4 volts. A regular lead acid charger will never charge them correctly. If you have a solar charger, you need to change the profile to LiFePO4 or they won't charge correctly. When they are fully charged, they'll be a little over 13.8 volts. A lot of the LiFePO4 batteries BMS (battery management system) has a bluetooth interface and you can monitor with an app on your phone.
 
xr650rRider said:
Hopefully you had a hall-effect clamp on or it won't read DC amperage. LiFEPO4 12 volt batteries need a special charger that outputs at least 14.2-14.4 volts. A regular lead acid charger will never charge them correctly. If you have a solar charger, you need to change the profile to LiFePO4 or they won't charge correctly.
Click to expand...
I'm using a Victron 100/30
Has settings for different battery types
Is set for LIFEPO
-----------------------------------
And the only reason I can figure the clamp meter is reading DC amps
is because the Inverter is drawing DC amps at the same frequency it is putting out 120 AC
IE: Alternating DC current, it is a Renogy 3000 watt
otherwise yeah I agree, it should not...because when I saw this worked I tried it on other DC circuits and it did not read,,,,and just said 0.000
-----------------------------------
I could put my DMM in series and double check the readings are the same
However if I turn on another appliance I can see the amperage change with the clampmeter accordingly
 
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JTEX said:
I have a 16kw Kubota diesel on my house. Its a manual setup, but I have run for several days at a time during hurricanes. It uses about a half a gallon per hour....
Click to expand...

I also lived in hurricane country once. So solar and wind was out of the question. I would assume tornado country would be the same thing.
I built a solid concrete bomb proof gen room and put in the smallest genset I could use to power my entire house. It had a 5 ton cental a/c and I installed a giant quick start capacitor in it so my puny 7.5kw Northern Lights - Kubota could start it. My system was fully manual and it sipped fuel. Can't remember the rate but it was so low it was not an issue. I was able to keep all my treated fuel in 5 gal plastic cans so I could rotate them by using in my diesel vehicle. It worked great and was a lifetime system. The cheap part of the project was the cost of the generator. If I had to do it again out of hurricane zone I would still go diesel. And of course always have a Honda 2000 for backup. You can back feed it into your house and run everything selectively. Thats what I do now. SDC10061.JPGSDC10060.jpgIMG_0386.JPG
 
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