Generators & Battery back up

[muddy72]

Amish have been in the solar game for years!
Yeah, look at the big picture of what capabilities you really want in the end. None of its cheap! But probably cheaper if done sooner than later. If I wanted batteries, I'd probably be all in on a grid tied solar array. It checks alot of boxes too! Our local energy provider just gave a rate increase, Those do add up and the break even just may come sooner when the real math is done. For a few random power outages. A Kohler, Cummins or Generac auto switched generator fed by propane is a good investment and easily does the job.

Be aware! You go talk to the Amish, your gonna end up building a barn! We'll want pictures of that too!

 

[J.d. Popkes]

I like the (Talk to the Amish boys) that actually makes sense..they will know what the best way is i would think..good tip.
So i should build a big barn and load the roof with solar panels and a big jucy battery bank.
Stay hooked up the the grid but dont use it.
Honey i did what you and the folks on the forum said, it really for the best..youll see
heres the bill..
300k
this is always how every project goes..
In all honesty i dont think the barn is an issue ive been looking for an excuse to build one
But once you start adding copper the price skyrockets plumbing, or electrical it was never like that untill i wanted to build something for myself..hahaha
Im ready..i already expect to get everything how i just want in my life, and a tree falls and kills me.the day after hahaha.
Im totally kidding.
These are tough decisions to make.
i dont stop on a project untill i see it through
This is why i said in not ready for solor
But maybe i am and i dont know it yet.
Owr power bills have definitely increased considerably up north
My wife and i have revisited this topic.
Im the one who says (lets do it!) She is the sensible one..
I can definitely understand how a shady system can actually cost alot of money over just a few years.
I think the cost of solar systems have definitely come down , as they are becoming more popular. The technology has improved and the batteries are ever evolving..
Lots to consider.

Plus the government gives you free money for them. Tax credits. A system so good that they have to pay you to get it!

What’s the goal? Outages or cogeneration?

Solar doesn’t solve either cost effectively. For cogeneration only there is nothing that pencils out without subsidies. For outages either a manual hookup or an automated system for ease of use or when you are gone.

You ain’t making power cheaper than the utility.

 

[rayporter]

this may be a way to dip your toes into a battery back up

BLUETTI AC300 3000W Inverter Power Station Module Generator 30A TT-30 Outlet RV | eBay

Plug in the adapter and solar panels, then you can top up BLUETTI AC300 with astonishing 5400W input rate. The BLUETTI Fusion Box Pro (P030A) is REQUIRED. BLUETTI B300 3072Wh Portable Power Station Expansion Battery for AC300 AC500S.

www.ebay.com

 

[bobcat93]

Plus the government gives you free money for them. Tax credits. A system so good that they have to pay you to get it!

What’s the goal? Outages or cogeneration?

Solar doesn’t solve either cost effectively. For cogeneration only there is nothing that pencils out without subsidies. For outages either a manual hookup or an automated system for ease of use or when you are gone.

You ain’t making power cheaper

I have a small place now..its efficient as it can be.
When i built it it was designed as what i call a (Garden Shed) kind of what the Brits have.
It is pretty much a screened in porch, a full kitchen full bath and small sleeping area up stairs for two
It is a place after were done working in the forest, or harvest our garden veggies can clean and prep food and do our canning, clean game and preserve in freezer, clean ourselves and wash filthy clothing then walk to our home back deeper in the forest. That is the long term vision. Haha..so far no fancy new house in the forest but im gonna keep looking in there haha
There has been a lot of obstacles but i built it and its gonna be around a long time.
Im at a point i have to take care of things in the forest so i have been doing that and neglected the cabin..i mean (Garden Shed) ..since then i really dont want to be anyplace else.. i could just sit and watch the tree and wild life and be completely happy..probably why not much is finnish in our area...soon as the weather breaks its garden time, then spring clean up, then fishing and hiking..see what i mean?
If you stay in the north country your only inside to sleep or eat then run back outside..
My property is my home, the structure happen to be where i sleep at night.
Ive absolutely never shared this with any one..
Its a new step to open up for me..hahaha..i feel like the Grinch when his heart grew bigger.
Haha.
See i just need something more quiet then a generator.

 

[Knotwild]

Before electricity got delivered on poles, those who could afford it had a generator and batteries. Everything was DC. The engines were tiny 4cyl, 4 cycle and the generator was, of course, tied to a bank of glass batteries. The batteries could be serviced and you could tell with a glance if they needed water. When the batteries got low, points would close sending power to the starter. The engine would run till there was enough power to open the points and shut of the engine.

I remember one plantation That had a generator house with 2 rows of 5 of those generators in each row and banks of glass batteries.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

That’s one heck of a garden shed

 

[jackieschmidt]

When we moved to Tomball 3 years ago, the first thing I had installed was a 28KW Generac liquid cooled generator.
My sister in law moved into one of those planned housing developments in the same area and wanted to get a small Generac. But her development is all electric, no natural gas.

That’s life. Her only option is a “solar generator“, which is nothing but a solar charged battery pack that has about a 1200 watt capacity, or one of those noisy gas generators that require multiple trips to the gas station.

 

[muddy72]

I'd like a 28kw liquid cooled generator! My kinda thinking! Jealous too!

 

[muddy72]

That's a lot of kilowatts. Remember it takes around 1.3 horsepower to generate 1 kilowatt. A 1/2 load, 14 kw, will require 18 horsepower to produce, so that unit needs a big gas-guzzling engine to produce up to 28 kw.

I point this out because my 2nd generator was a gasoline powdered Chicago Electric, 12 kw, electric start unit. It had a 20 horsepower 4 cycle, V-twin, OHV engine, that used a gallon of gas an hour.

With a 10 gallon tank I couldn't lug gas fast enough to keep it filled. My previous 4,800 watt Homelite used about a quart an hour, so quite a rude - and expensive - awakening. Fortunately I was able to sell it in short order and got most of my money back. I bought a Coleman 5 kw one which I still have. It uses about a quart of gas an hour too.

SJ

I looked recently and I may be wrong but a 28kw may have a 4cyl powering it and they love gasoline. A little better output running on propane but they like that too! When I built my house 20yrs ago, natural gas wasn't available and still isn't. Some reason I didn't want propane either, now I'd take whichever. I say that cause with all electric in the house, if we really had to power heat pumps, water heater and everything else. To meet those needs we're at a 30kw I think. Now, we can go much smaller with a pick and choose panel and lesson the cost by half at least. Now with winter, since 2009 I've heated with a outdoor boiler. A little work but takes alot less electricity to operate if needed. If we had long summer outage, we're currently screwed!

 

[spaniel]

How much does you homeowners insurance go up when the insurance company finds out the fire department can no longer put out a fire? Lithium-metal batteries and water can be explosive even lithium-ion batteries have some lithium metal which mixed with water release hydrogen and HEAT.

LiFePO4 batteries used in solar storage are not the same thing as lithium ion used in cars. The former is not subject to thermal runaway, the latter is.

It would have cost at least 20K to run power to my hunting cabin and angered my neighbors so I went solar. It's not something you're really going to run a house off without a really expensive battery bill. I have about 6k into my system, it works for a hunting cabin never used more than four days in a row and no A/C or other large power draws.

 

[bobcat93]

You guys are turning the clocks way back..
If every spooky movie when the kids are at camp and the generator fails shit hits the fan..boobs come out and slashers attack..
At some point they always ends up naked trying to get the generator started again.
This takes place in a shed with something that appears to be a generator the size of a tractor engine.
And it powers the entire camp with no noise untill they walk in the old wood shed .
That is what i want..like a 1950 ford power plant or what ever it is..i can string my own power lines on my property and install those old tin farm lights that burn out just as everything is about to go wrong..

Hahaha...you know what im talking about!..
One of these..

 

[FNSafari]

Having a 5kW battery backup to our solar array is great. Not big enough on its own to carry us through 3 day or longer outage but those are rare. for a 1 day or less (fairly common in winter) its nice not to have to get dressed in the middle of a howling snowstorm in the middle of the night and start the generator. if the outage looks to be longish I start the 6.6kw Yamhammer in the daylight. No system is perfect unless you have unlimited funds.

 

[bobcat93]

Before electricity got delivered on poles, those who could afford it had a generator and batteries. Everything was DC. The engines were tiny 4cyl, 4 cycle and the generator was, of course, tied to a bank of glass batteries. The batteries could be serviced and you could tell with a glance if they needed water. When the batteries got low, points would close sending power to the starter. The engine would run till there was enough power to open the points and shut of the engine.

I remember one plantation That had a generator house with 2 rows of 5 of those generators in each row and banks of glass batteries.

You giving me some crazy ideas.
Some one could do a follow along with me video series on you tube, and make a little extra cash to squirrel away..thats very popular now..just like ebay use to be
Start by builting a small power house, installing generator and build glass batteries..holy smokes is that a good one.
It dosnt necessary need to be 100% efficient if its over producing..but you would definitely want to harvest any power you could if your burning fuil to do it..
Still if would be a cool video series of what could be done as an option..
Im still under the impression that solar is a trick ..the solar cells need replaced between battery replacement life span is that correct?..so its a constent treadmill and head ache.
While a generator is still burning fossil fuels and uses a battery bank. Its short term.
From what ive been reading it takes approximately 20-30 acers of healthy trees to absorb the carbon foot print of the average family over a life time.
Im not sure how that information was collected or how they arrived at said numbers.
It was just article i scanned over.
But if thats true i can do just about what ever i want and still be of insignificant impact to our environment.
I think the waist produced from a generator fumes, parts burning fuel is of very little impact when BP & Chevron is working there magic blowing oil well open for months at a time and destroying the (Gulf of America) did you guys see that one..the Gulf of Mexico is gone, its under new management..just check google .
A generator and small batter bank seems more logical then solar and large battery bank.
Long term , recycling, land fill waist.
This is why i posted some times when we can talk about things and consider the other points of view it helps make the path more clear.
I love all the information ive received from folks who have already been where im heading.
Much respect for my predecessor.
Thank you for sharing your findings.

 

[dryhumor]

You guys are turning the clocks way back..
If every spooky movie when the kids are at camp and the generator fails shit hits the fan..boobs come out and slashers attack..
At some point they always ends up naked trying to get the generator started again.
This takes place in a shed with something that appears to be a generator the size of a tractor engine.
And it powers the entire camp with no noise untill they walk in the old wood shed .
That is what i want..like a 1950 ford power plant or what ever it is..i can string my own power lines on my property and install those old tin farm lights that burn out just as everything is about to go wrong..

Hahaha...you know what im talking about!..
One of these..

Older stuff was built better… but back then, fuel was cheaper and no one really gave it any thought.
Controls were also pretty straightforward. The boards were simple, with mostly replaceable components. Aftermarket controls are available for the most part.
Most, but not all, components can be found for voltage regulators. It gets iffy if slip rings are involved. Nearly every black box regulator can be replaced.
Most seals and gaskets can be made as needed, O rings can be challenging.
Many older generators actually have light use low hours. The problem ones have been run too lightly loaded, or not loaded at all, and have glazing on the cylinder walls. If the rings can’t seal, the pressure moves to the crankcase, and there’s no power to carry the load.
Circuit breakers get obsolete fast. Finding a replacement that’s the exact same provides no guarantees it’ll last as long as the original. Reworking the box, cables, supports, etc becomes the norm to upfit a new breaker.

I think 1995-2005 is about the sweet spot for older generators. Still good parts support, easier aftermarket parts. Pretty simple control systems.

ETA: Generally speaking about diesel, with natural gas/propane vapor thrown in.

 

[bobcat93]

That’s one heck of a garden shed

Thank you. Im a very very humble man im not trying to show off or anything..its just what i have after grinding by body into the ground every day for 38yrs..it doesnt seem like an even trade to me on most days. Soo ..haha It was gonna be a full house, then covid pandemic came. I quit my job and my wife got a new one. Dont go thinking the grass is greener in my yard..trust me its not..its probably just like everyone else's. Then i ordered all my materials before the price hikes..or i could have never afforded to build such a pretty little place. You wouldnt believe what that cost..i should have just built the house it still took the same amount of wire and plumbing..due to the small size it made all the tight angles more complicated..i have successfully cramed 10lbs of shit, in a 5lb bag so to say..hahaha.
So construction suddenly changed from building a house to the garden shed.

I am still to worried to spend the money and finish it. Due to all the political and economic unrest.
So i have things wired and framed in the garden shen so its ready to have a window to become a doorway and lead into a master bedroom , and more off the back.
If that is what we decide to do and scrap the idea of a big house back in the forest..i can leave that for my kids to figure out .
By building my garden shed it (STOP ) the building process at a nice place construction wise, with a world of options for me. Ive been building homes for 38years ..im pretty damn good at what i do or (use to do)
What this did allow me to do was spend more on site preparation, power installation, and well drilling ( well not done yet due to a 30k$ price tag) so i fill up from natural local springs close by. This entire project has been out of pocket. I bought the land and paid it off in full. That cabin and everything is paid in full no credit cards we owe no one a damn thing..there is no surprise bill gonna come do. So when money becomes available we do more. The banks can go away nothing for them here..all my taxes are paid, the IRS can go away..im on privately marked property ATF can piss off..or we can have a shoot out like the ok corral..
Its all a big mess but its my mess and there is order in it
Man im 55yrs old..my life is probably 3/4 over..our time is limited
So im doing everything i can while i can still put up a fight scrambling to where i want to be.
if life has shown me anything it be flexible, be open to new ideas, my way isnt the only way, reamain teachable. And for God sakes never stop moving.
I want to die dirty sweaty and in the forest building something cool for my family..not working to fill some other mans pocket.
That is what i have chosen to do , it is my silent personal revolution some may think it dumb but its importantto me . .i will no loger produce for a world that never gives anything back..piss off.
The time i have left is for me, and my family.
every decision has its consequences.
So far i have learned to live quite happy i can accept the consequences of my action..
Live has ballance and is honest to me this way.
I have learned from a young age to find side work when i need money..i do tile setting and door installation.
Maybe some complicated stair repairs no one wants to get involved in. I like the hard tasks because i can do them, and they pay well.
I scrap by and i make do..
I replaced my income with side work when needed, game for meat, and garden food
I trade laybor to my neighbors and in turn they mill lumber or come over and move some big tree i cut down with their big tractors.
Im not grinding away being told i need to do more, and go faster for less money..i help others, and am part of a beautiful community and they help me.
It is everything that was missing in my life for the past 50yrs .
I am truly loved, and blessed..and i damn well know it..hahaha.
So if you see my little cabin and want one..you can do it..i have not done anything special then any one else..i got up out of bed..even when i had days i wanted to lay back down and die..i got my ass up..took a shower and showed up for life. .
If i can do it..so can any one else..
Food for thought a little back story of how things are playing out for me in this difficult endeavor.
Life is always a work in progress..no graduation, we just keep learning lesson,after lesson

 

[JFrank]

I like the (Talk to the Amish boys) that actually makes sense..they will know what the best way is i would think..good tip.
So i should build a big barn and load the roof with solar panels and a big jucy battery bank.
Stay hooked up the the grid but dont use it.
Honey i did what you and the folks on the forum said, it really for the best..youll see
heres the bill..
300k
this is always how every project goes..
In all honesty i dont think the barn is an issue ive been looking for an excuse to build one
But once you start adding copper the price skyrockets plumbing, or electrical it was never like that untill i wanted to build something for myself..hahaha
Im ready..i already expect to get everything how i just want in my life, and a tree falls and kills me.the day after hahaha.
Im totally kidding.
These are tough decisions to make.
i dont stop on a project untill i see it through
This is why i said in not ready for solor
But maybe i am and i dont know it yet.
Owr power bills have definitely increased considerably up north
My wife and i have revisited this topic.
Im the one who says (lets do it!) She is the sensible one..
I can definitely understand how a shady system can actually cost alot of money over just a few years.
I think the cost of solar systems have definitely come down , as they are becoming more popular. The technology has improved and the batteries are ever evolving..
Lots to consider.

I have built a zero net energy home a few years ago in the issaquah Wa. highlands . I can’t recall the exact turnkey price per foot however about s hundred dollars a foot would be close.
This 5 star built green construction was a 3500 sw ft luxury home with heated floors and a huge heat pump for air conditioning coupled with every convenience from top to bottom including outdoor water features.
I recall a production meter a net meter with inverters etc. rain or shine the home produced enough power to sell power back to Puget Power.

@DirtySteve may have some additional and updated information on his solar equipped home.

 

[muddy72]

Thank you. Im a very very humble man im not trying to show off or anything..its just what i have after grinding by body into the ground every day for 38yrs..it doesnt seem like an even trade to me on most days. Soo ..haha It was gonna be a full house, then covid pandemic came. I quit my job and my wife got a new one. Dont go thinking the grass is greener in my yard..trust me its not..its probably just like everyone else's. Then i ordered all my materials before the price hikes..or i could have never afforded to build such a pretty little place. You wouldnt believe what that cost..i should have just built the house it still took the same amount of wire and plumbing..due to the small size it made all the tight angles more complicated..i have successfully cramed 10lbs of shit, in a 5lb bag so to say..hahaha.
So construction suddenly changed from building a house to the garden shed.
I am still to worried to spend the money and finish it. Due to all the political and economic unrest.
So i have things wired and framed in the garden shen so its ready to have a window to become a doorway and lead into a master bedroom , and more off the back.
If that is what we decide to do and scrap the idea of a big house back in the forest..i can leave that for my kids to figure out .
By building my garden shed it (STOP ) the building process at a nice place construction wise, with a world of options for me. Ive been building homes for 38years ..im pretty damn good at what i do or (use to do)
What this did allow me to do was spend more on site preparation, power installation, and well drilling ( well not done yet due to a 30k$ price tag) so i fill up from natural local springs close by.
Its all a big mess but in my mess there is order and an exit strategy.
Man im 55yrs old..my life is probably 3/4 over..our time is limited
So im doing everything i can while i can still put up a fight scrambling to where i want to be.
if life has shown me anything it be flexible, be open to new ideas, my way isnt the only way, reamain teachable. And for God sakes never stop moving.
I want to die dirty sweaty and in the forest building something cool for my family..not working to fill some other mans pocket.
That is what i have chosen to do , it is my silent person revolution..i will no loger produce for a world that never gives anything back..piss off.
The time i have left is for me, and my family.
every decision has its consequences.
So far i have learned to live quite happy i can accept the consequences of my action..
Live has ballance and is honest to me this way.
I have learned to find side work when i need money..i do tile setting and door installation.
Maybe some complicated stair repairs no one wants to get involved in.
I scrap by and i make do..
I replaced my income with deer and garden food
I trade laybor to my neighbors and in turn they mill lumber or come over and move some big tree i cut down with their big tractors.
Im not grinding away being told i need to do more, and go faster for less money..i help and am part of a beautiful community and they help me.
It is everything that was missing in my life for the past 50yrs .
I am truly loved, and blessed..and i damn well know it..hahaha.
So if you see my little cabin and want one..you can do it..i have done anything special then any one else..i got up out of bed..even when i had days i wanted to lay back down and die..i got my ass up..took a shower and showed up for life. .
If i can do it..so can any one else..
Food for thought a little back story of how things played out for me in this new world of our.

As your Hoosier neighbor, I fully respect where your coming from! I'm alittle younger than you but I recently did something similar with my work life and couldn't be happier!

 

[bluealtered]

Since I live in an area that the power can go out winter or summer the answer is simple if you have propane in your area. Call Generac and after checking to see how big a generator you need, (include the startup surge for all the things you will need the generator for), bite the bullet and order the setup you need. Yes,it cost's money but so does all the food you lose when the power goes out.
Right now here it's -8, wind chill is -20 if you use electric heat for your house, you will be supprised how fast it will get cold.

 

[DirtySteve]

I put up my own solar system. I bought a pre-wired system from Blue Pacific Solar. Including getting the racking system. I think it is 3.2kw...
I originally had lead acid batteries but went Lithium Iron Phosphate a couple years ago...I bought two of these batteries. https://batteryevo.com/product/48v-kong-elite-max-368ah-19-kwh/ And later added a second one because I had some spare change. Now I have nearly 600 Ah of storage.

I charge them with a predator generator when the need it due to weather not cooperating. Actually since I used to use lead acid batteries I make sure they are fully or near fully charged just because I am paranoid. My neighbor has a Perkins generator that really does a great job and is an awesome machine. His only problem was with wet stacking. Wet stacking is caused by not using enough of the desiel generator out put to get the engine under a large enough load that the engine never gets up to temp. The exhaust get full of black oily soot.

If I did it again I may look other places than Blue Pacific as they have changed components in some of their packages. The charge controller is the big thing. I had Midnite solar and will change to a Victron when the time comes. https://www.amazon.com/Victron-SmartSolar-100-Tr-Solar-Controller/dp/B07FCRZ3F6

I will take pictures later..

 

[Old Navy]

That's a lot of kilowatts. Remember it takes around 1.3 horsepower to generate 1 kilowatt. A 1/2 load, 14 kw, will require 18 horsepower to produce, so that unit needs a big gas-guzzling engine to produce up to 28 kw.

I point this out because my 2nd generator was a gasoline powdered Chicago Electric, 12 kw, electric start unit. It had a 20 horsepower 4 cycle, V-twin, OHV engine, that used a gallon of gas an hour.

With a 10 gallon tank I couldn't lug gas fast enough to keep it filled. My previous 4,800 watt Homelite used about a quart an hour, so quite a rude - and expensive - awakening. Fortunately I was able to sell it in short order and got most of my money back. I bought a Coleman 5 kw one which I still have. It uses about a quart of gas an hour too.

SJ

AI Overview
Learn more

Yes, Generac generators, like most modern generators, are equipped with an "idle control" system which automatically adjusts the engine speed to match the electrical load, essentially idling down when there is minimal power demand and increasing speed when more power is needed. They also run a lot cheaper on natural gas.