The scale floats when I'm not even near it. Plus wearing the static strap doesn't seem to help. It and everything else is grounded to earth through the house wiring. It does seem to sense body movement sometimes like moving my arm although it may be 2' away. And no other movement to generate static. I'm going to try to eliminate different things like the chair. It seems more sensitive when the scale is probably in between divisions and the static or whatever pushes it over the threshold. At other times it seems less sensitive.
FX-120i, FX-200i, FX-300i Problems
- Thread starter T-shooter
- Start date
I'm aware of florescent bulbs. I only have LED and in the day, just light through the window. There is no cell phone on, and the problem exists with everything electrical turned off including the WiFi.
I may have to try that. Yesterday I tried disconnecting the ground to the house wiring (3rd prong) and it made no difference. From what I see, it definitely seems to act like static but if so, I haven't found the source.
Controlling humidity may or may not solve the problem because I don't know how effective it would be since I have never done it. However, it would seem that running a humidifier close to an enclosed reloading area should raise the humidity which one should be able to monitor using a Kestrel. If you raised it enough to remove static and the problem goes away, you at least know that it is the source of the problem.
Humidity does mitigate static. But an extreme static issue could force one to raise relative humidity (r.h.) beyond reasonable, and safe-for equipment and structure...not to mention primers and powder.
Further, almost nowhere in the continental US, suffers from low r h in the springtime.
If static is the problem, it should be removed, not masked.
I monitor conditions. Today, the humidity is 52%, temp is 71*, and the pressure is 29.78. I zero'd a powder pan, added a 75.00 grain weight, and the scale was 100% stable for 1bout 1/2 hour, then started to fluctuate. During that time I couldn't make it change. I tried generating static by rubbing everything in the room and nothing worked. Then it started and in about another 30 minutes settle on 74.98 grain. As it was fluctuating, sometimes, any movement by me made the reading change by .02. I have an idea I'm working on today. The scale reads in .02g increments. But if it senses a slight change 74.984 or 74.986, it may be on the threshold between numbers and round the reading off to the nearest increment either up or down. When it's on the edge, anything makes it move. As it drifts a bit, it settles down and is somewhat stable for a short while. As the reading would react to my movement and seemed unstable, I dropped in one kernel of Varget which are approximately .02 grain but not exact. The reading went from 74.98 to 75.00 and now is very stable. Nothing I do other than physically touching it makes it change the reading. Just as I'm writing this it started to move between 74.98 and 75.00 again. I added another piece of Varget and now it seems stable again at 75.02. This could be caused by minor drifting of the zero point (not zero on the readout). I think static may be enough to move the reading if it's close but not if it's settled down on a number. Still if this is the case, how do I reload accurately with it? Keep adding tiny bits of weight and re-zeroing the scale? And then how would you detect it being off unless you use a test weight in between each powder load? After 10-15 minutes, it's reacting to me again. Added one kernel, still moves, added another and it stopped again staying at 75.06. Right now this thing is a $600 paperweight!
Do you have a line conditioner in your supply circuit? If not, that may be your problem...particularly if it drifts without you near it and it is draft protected. A dedicated circuit may help but I have had zero issues on a 'crappy' circuit after installing a Tripplite LC1800 between the wall outlet and the scale. As I have mentioned, cycling of a nearby old refrigerator/freezer compressor will dim the room lights but the scale readout stays dead on.
Honestly, a scale that varies by 0.02 grain is working perfectly. It is not any better or worse than mine. If you are working to make it so that you don't see that degree of change, you are chasing your tail unless you are shooting a discipline that actually requires that degree of precision.
I have a small 2 outlet Triplite Isobar unit.
For this much money, it should be more reliable than A GemPro-300 (I have had 2) which cost less than 1/4 of the A&D and is easier to use. I don't think it should be fluctuating on the reading for no apparent reason, failure to maintain zero, drift, and should weigh the same every time, every day. It has been near perfect several times for several hours each. Lately, not so good. Which scale do you use?
I come from the pharmaceutical industry and have used precision scales for 30 odd years at work, I am talking about scales that cost many thousands of dollars not hundreds and I can tell you that they all fluctuate a little. None of them can stay rock steady forever.
What you need to understand is 0.02 grain is equivalent to 1.3 mg and that is a very small number and to expect a scale to stay rock steady at that type of precision is unrealistic. Put another way, that metal+plastic pan weight in at ~94 grams, so a 1.3 milligram (0.02 grain) change is a 0.0014% change in overall weight... I am sure that a really expensive lab scale today can do it but the FX-102i is not a really expensive lab scale. It is a great scale because it is responsive, can do auto zero but…
They manufacture scale to do what is expected of them. For reloading, most people will ignore a 0.02 grain variance because we cannot see it on paper and because we don’t want to pay what it cost to give a rock zero variance at 0.02 grain sensitivity level.
FWIW, I have the GemPro 250 and an FX-120i.
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This is what it looks like at the worst if this video plays. Nothing moving in the room, the breeze shields on and the scale settings at the most stable. Just before and just after this it gained and dropped an additional division (74.98 and 75.04) but only once. When you remove the pan, the negative weight usually stays the same. The noise is a computer but not close and it does the same thing with it off anyway.
This is what it looks like at the worst if this video plays. Nothing moving in the room, the breeze shields on and the scale settings at the most stable. Just before and just after this it gained and dropped an additional division (74.98 and 75.04) but only once. When you remove the pan, the negative weight usually stays the same. The noise is a computer but not close and it does the same thing with it off anyway.http://s212.photobucket.com/user/KABOOM995/media/Scale.mp4.html
This is what it looks like at the worst if this video plays. Nothing moving in the room, the breeze shields on and the scale settings at the most stable. Just before and just after this it gained and dropped an additional division (74.98 and 75.04) but only once. When you remove the pan, the negative weight usually stays the same. The noise is a computer but not close and it does the same thing with it off anyway.http://s212.photobucket.com/user/KABOOM995/media/Scale.mp4.html
Sorry about the video, it doesn't play well online. To the right there is a download link. Download it and play it from your device. It's in an MP4 format and only 1,134 KB.
You have a surge protector...which absorbs electrical spikes to help prevent 'frying' your electronics. I am referring to a line conditioner which smooths the AC input (putting it simplistically). It is a fairly low end unit (Tripplite LC 1200 or 1800) but it works well.
T-shooter, try switching your scale to read in grams instead of grains.
What you're seeing - unstable over time when scale moves +/- 0.02 grains - may improve when you switch to grams.
Jlow knows his stuff when it comes to "performance vs. price" where scales are concerned. The Fx-120i's native mode is grams so the 0.02 fluctuations you're vexed by may be rounding errors showing up when the scale thinks something's changed but it can't display the change in a smaller unit when grains is the selection.
0.02 grains = 0.0012959 grams (0.001 is enough for our needs) & I've switched to using grams for weighing charges for this very reason. Variances of 0.002 grams won't affect your loads to any measurable degree.
What you're seeing - unstable over time when scale moves +/- 0.02 grains - may improve when you switch to grams.
Jlow knows his stuff when it comes to "performance vs. price" where scales are concerned. The Fx-120i's native mode is grams so the 0.02 fluctuations you're vexed by may be rounding errors showing up when the scale thinks something's changed but it can't display the change in a smaller unit when grains is the selection.
0.02 grains = 0.0012959 grams (0.001 is enough for our needs) & I've switched to using grams for weighing charges for this very reason. Variances of 0.002 grams won't affect your loads to any measurable degree.
It's an Tripplite IB2-0 2 outlet.
...which only provides surge protection. The unit(s) I reference provide a degree of line conditioning.
USMCDOC
Silver $$ Contributor
When i was having my issues. i was trying to use the scale in this manner.
i was getting a lot of movement of the scale.. what i discovered is, part of it is indeed static and the other is that the scale is so sensitive to air movement that my minor movement to load the powder pan on or off the scale, dump or trickle powder in the pan was causing the scale to jump around.
Then i discovered that i needed to do it this way
I have to stand at arms length from the scale to reduce the effects of static, but now.. i place the powder pan on the marble beside the scale, put the first scoop in the pan, then place the pan on the scale and then trickle the remainder of the charge through the top of the cover to the scale.. By doing it this way, the flickering, non-return to zero and all of that other nonsense finally stopped! But if i try to stand close to it, the scale will still become unsettled due to static. So i have to stand about 2.5 or so feet from it in order to keep that at bay!
i was getting a lot of movement of the scale.. what i discovered is, part of it is indeed static and the other is that the scale is so sensitive to air movement that my minor movement to load the powder pan on or off the scale, dump or trickle powder in the pan was causing the scale to jump around.
Then i discovered that i needed to do it this way
I have to stand at arms length from the scale to reduce the effects of static, but now.. i place the powder pan on the marble beside the scale, put the first scoop in the pan, then place the pan on the scale and then trickle the remainder of the charge through the top of the cover to the scale.. By doing it this way, the flickering, non-return to zero and all of that other nonsense finally stopped! But if i try to stand close to it, the scale will still become unsettled due to static. So i have to stand about 2.5 or so feet from it in order to keep that at bay!
I'll have my small diameter weighing platform made by mid-next week. It will be 2.75" instead of 5.1", only about 29% of the surface area for any breeze to push on. I'll post pictures then.
With yours, try a simple ground wire off the screw in the rear in a convenient spot and touch it when you reach out to the scale. Maybe a large flat washer with the wire attached and rest your arm on it. That would help stop and discharge. You said you drop powder through the top. With a covering of powder in the pan it usually didn't bounce out. The baffled drop tube I showed earlier in this post works. Nothing fancy. I used a .308 case, kneadable epoxy, a couple pieces of a box cutter blade for the baffles, and a Dremmel with a small cut-off disk. I made a drawing because the real one looks a little rough. You can put the pan in empty, close the top of the scale, zero it and without disturbing the scale drop in the whole powder charge and trickle the remainder.
Something else I tried was to remove the stainless cover zero and weigh. Then I tried zeroing the scale with 100 grams of weight on it. Made no difference either way.
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