F-open rule experts

[kohai133]

Very true. However, f-class is literally Benchrest from the prone. Thats what the rules dictate. 99% the same game IMO. I have shot service rifle. F-class shares almost nothing with high power.

Not trying to piss in everyone Cheerios here, but as recent as the NRA HPR rule book of 2014, under 22.F-Class, 3.4.1(a)(2) paragraph three, "This discipline is a modification of high power prone shooting, not a form of bench rest and should not be construed as such."

Just sayin'. With the recent bungling of the service rifle rules updates and general lack of crosschecking referenced rules it is clear the NRA needs to sub-contract the compilation, clarifications and editing of the rule books out to people that do this for a living.

Off my soap box and back to the OP. Why not just use one of the doughnut shaped bags, partially filled, under the rear rest?

Cheers,
Jim

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Not trying to piss in everyone Cheerios here, but as recent as the NRA HPR rule book of 2014, under 22.F-Class, 3.4.1(a)(2) paragraph three, "This discipline is a modification of high power prone shooting, not a form of bench rest and should not be construed as such."

Just sayin'. With the recent bungling of the service rifle rules updates and general lack of crosschecking referenced rules it is clear the NRA needs to sub-contract the compilation, clarifications and editing of the rule books out to people that do this for a living.

Off my soap box and back to the OP. Why not just use one of the doughnut shaped bags, partially filled, under the rear rest?

Cheers,
Jim

Thats an interesting rule. Not sure what the intent of the rule is? How is it enforced? I know that most dont want to think of F-open as being like Benchrest for one reason or another. But if you look at the rests, rifles, optics, exc. They are the same. You can take everything off a 1k BR bench and put it on the ground and your shooting F-open. Actually the equipment race in F-open is far worse than anything in BR right now. I like them both and embrace the similarities and differences. I did shoot service rifle and can't think of any similarities to F-open. I enjoyed service rifle too. They are all challenging in different ways.

 

[kohai133]

The rules are... clear as mud in some cases and crystal clear in others. I agree when comparing F-Open and Bench Rest the primary difference is prone on a mat or sitting on a stool at a bench. As for that portion of the rule I quoted it has been removed in the last two rounds of the rule book. I think they realized that it was an objective desire and not an enforceable rule. Now if they would fix/delete "spirit" 3.18. I get this rule, however we are all different spirits and what is OK for one is not the other.

I wasn't implying that service rifle has a dog in this fight, just that with inclusion of optics for service rifle now they have really botched that portion of the rule book. Especially as it applies to the upcoming nationals program that appears to be written before the new rules were published.

 

[dcali]

The difference in spirit is that there is no point in shooting benchrest off a wobbly bench- a ridiculously stable bench is inherently required for it to be fun. F class, in theory at least, is still high power rifle, and ought to be shot like high power rifle, if you ask me. ( As an idealized approximation of field-usable shooting practices.)

 

[Alex Wheeler]

That's what I am trying to understand. In f open we use a front and rear rest, a lot shoot free recoil. In high power you support the rifle. The rules can say it's not benchrest but I don't see it that way. In f open my rifle is as stable as my bench gun on the bench. The bag moves some after the shot, but rests take me out of it. In some ways you have even more advantage in open. You can have as much side contact on the stock as you want in the front bag and you can fill the rear bag with lead shot if you want. I love f class, but am just tying to be real.

 

[dcali]

Open is clearly very close to benchrest. If I ruled the world, rests would be illegal in open class, as would any boards to support the bipod. Then again, maybe nobody would want to shoot that- part of the appeal of f class is that it's easy. I quickly learned that open wasn't for me and have had a blast with TR, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

 

[dcali]

I would also love to see a course of fire with rapids (like in cross course, or something similar) in f class. But that might just be me.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I would also love to see a course of fire with rapids (like in cross course, or something similar) in f class. But that might just be me.

Pretty sure we already have that. Have you ever seen David Gosnell shoot?

 

[lawman29]

However, f-class is literally Benchrest from the prone. Thats what the rules dictate. 99% the same game IMO. I have shot service rifle. F-class shares almost nothing with high power.

As an F Class shooter I'll have to disagree, in actuality Long Range Bench Rest is a more primitive and pure form of long range shooting...they actually shoot holes in paper targets, score it and measure groups, while F Class with the use of e-targets really has more in common with "Call of Duty" or "virtual sex"....

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Heavy gun class is 10 shots. Most guys shoot a 17 lb rifle in heavy. 6 minutes for sighters. Id say 7 is average, then 10 for record, usually fast. So thats 17 in 7 minutes or so.
Seems like F-class guys almost take offence to being compared to Benchrest shooters. I see it as two sports that are 90% the same. One can learn from each and become better in both, IF you are open minded and want to. You can learn alot about tuning and loading from BR, alot about conditions and holding in F-class. Combine those and you have a very competitive shooter. Gosnell is a prime example of that. He's one of the few that can show up and win a 1k br match with his f-open rifle. I have seen how his 284 shot in BR. I am certain that that rifle he had was the best shooting rifle on the line at every match he went to. Add in his wind reading ability and I would be surprised if he didnt break records.

 

[dmoran]

Heavy gun class is 10 shots. Most guys shoot a 17 lb rifle in heavy. 6 minutes for sighters. Id say 7 is average, then 10 for record, usually fast. So thats 17 in 7 minutes or so.
Seems like F-class guys almost take offence to being compared to Benchrest shooters. I see it as two sports that are 90% the same. One can learn from each and become better in both, IF you are open minded and want to. You can learn alot about tuning and loading from BR, alot about conditions and holding in F-class. Combine those and you have a very competitive shooter. Gosnell is a prime example of that. He's one of the few that can show up and win a 1k br match with his f-open rifle. I have seen how his 284 shot in BR. I am certain that that rifle he had was the best shooting rifle on the line at every match he went to. Add in his wind reading ability and I would be surprised if he didnt break records.

In 1000-BR, I personally shoot the bulk of my sighters in the last 2-minutes of the sighter period, and my record shots with in the first 2-minutes of the record period. Equals: +15 shots in less then 4-minutes in HV.
Donovan

 

[Alex Wheeler]

We don't get on IBS rule threads with condescending posts as the one I responded too. We take the sport seriously and learn from all sources.

Well, its my thread. So I guess its ok if I get on here? Since I have shot more f-class in the last couple years then Benchrest, I dont see how I can be condescending against myself? Actually have not shot Br for a few years now. Plan to shoot a couple F-class matches this year. So I guess that makes me one of you guys??

 

[Dos XX]

Get you a bipod. You can hang out with us derelict F/TR shooters down on the group W end.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Id really have to learn to read wind then!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Anyhow, thanks to all who helped answer my questions. I know what I need to know now!

 

[rardoin]

Heavy gun class is 10 shots. Most guys shoot a 17 lb rifle in heavy. 6 minutes for sighters. Id say 7 is average, then 10 for record, usually fast. So thats 17 in 7 minutes or so.
Seems like F-class guys almost take offence to being compared to Benchrest shooters. I see it as two sports that are 90% the same. One can learn from each and become better in both, IF you are open minded and want to. You can learn alot about tuning and loading from BR, alot about conditions and holding in F-class. Combine those and you have a very competitive shooter. Gosnell is a prime example of that. He's one of the few that can show up and win a 1k br match with his f-open rifle. I have seen how his 284 shot in BR. I am certain that that rifle he had was the best shooting rifle on the line at every match he went to. Add in his wind reading ability and I would be surprised if he didnt break records.

I saw this attitude in auto racing (road racing). There were many different classes ('factions') that all felt their class/way of racing was more pure or virtuous or measured your degree of greatness more than the other. The truth was we all had the area we were happy with and had the most enjoyment competing in. I raced go-carts to full out carbon chassis formula cars and near stock Mazda Miatas and could apply techniques learned in one car/cart to the other cars/classes. We were all racer....period. Then...toss in drag racers versus oval track versus road racing and watch the sparks fly. Of course...oval racing is not really racing.. (trying to wake up Larry on that one)