F-Open: 300 WM?

[davidjoe]

There is no rule that all F-Class barrels must be shiny, stainless steel .



My Surgeons XL actions are not stainless and are all cerakoted either flat dark earth, or black.



I always thought this four color flame (bit of purple by butt) “Phoenix” McMillan required a black action to look good, but that it needed even a little more contrast, and that black stainless 5 R and yellow make me think of the gun as the midnight sun.



It’s set up for a 300 WM along with the Manners F-Class and a camo Kestros rail.

** The barrel is floating in the channel, for now, to test, and if some yellow box heavies would ship out it will try them, too.

 

[LVLAaron]

illegal

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Topics like this make me wonder why the little 6mm wins in benchrest (very good bullets available) but folks have to burn 70+ grs of powder with twice the bullet weight in f-class. Makes me always wonder which group is missing the boat?

 

[Sandstorm]

boat?

Im sure you know what boat your on.
We all sail our own seas.

 

[davidjoe]

Topics like this make me wonder why the little 6mm wins in benchrest (very good bullets available) but folks have to burn 70+ grs of powder with twice the bullet weight in f-class. Makes me always wonder which group is missing the boat?

These 300’s are being refined, presently. They so far, are only proving the lack of firm correlation between pure retained BC at the target, and finish placement, but I am keeping in mind that even in their early months of use, they already vie with my Saums, but their brass and barrels do last longer.

In club results, the relevancy of who all has to be beaten in Houston, to move up even a place or two, is a real thing, so I’m really comparing them to just myself with other guns. But you’re right, on a pleasant day, my .243’s will shoot 194’s and 195’s at 1,000 with DTACs. But that, or maybe a surprise 196 is probably their statistical absolute max, whereas these rifles will hopefully net me a point over a saum, every match, when ironed out, which were hoped to net me a point over .284’s every match.

I will say though, once more, that a .284 overlaps a saum in that tipped 195’s in a .284 will surpass all moderate saum loads, meaning anything that approaches 8 plus reloads and uses 180’s, and these 300’s with a long column are more like a bigger .284 than they are like a saum. I will fully use every piece of saum brass to its natural end, and there are thousands, but I will chase after no more of it.

As the raw components in the 300 rifles, the brass and all, (bullets too) are good, I am a believer that with focus and proper tweaking and adjustments, the 300’s will come into their own as windy day shooters and possibly even match 1 guns.

I didn’t waste any time with that black barrel today, and it’s a shooter at 600 based on the first 19 shots. I tried it free floated on Tim’s suggestion, and the rifle didn’t vibrate itself apart at the seams, yet. So I’ll continue this free-floating experiment a while longer .

 

[Dusty Stevens]

These 300’s are being refined, presently. They so far, are only proving the lack of firm correlation between pure retained BC at the target, and finish placement, but I am keeping in mind that even in their early months of use, they already vie with my Saums, but their brass and barrels do last longer.

In club results, the relevancy of who all has to be beaten in Houston, to move up even a place or two, is a real thing, so I’m really comparing them to just myself with other guns. But you’re right, on a pleasant day, my .243’s will shoot 194’s and 195’s at 1,000 with DTACs. But that, or maybe a surprise 196 is probably their statistical absolute max, whereas these rifles will hopefully net me a point over a saum, every match, when ironed out, which where hoped to net me a point over .284’s every match. I will say though, once more, that a .284 overlaps a saum in that tipped 195’s in a .284 will surpass all moderate saum loads, meaning anything that approaches 8 plus reloads and uses 180’s, and these 300’s with a long column are more like a bigger .284 than they are like a saum. I will fully use every piece of saum brass to its natural end, but will buy no more.

As the raw components in the rifles, the brass and all, (bullets too) are goods, I am a believer that with focus and proper tweaking and adjustments, the 300’s will come into their own as windy day shooters and possibly even match 1 guns.

I didn’t waste any time with that black barrel today, and it’s a shooter at 600 based on the first 19 shots. I tried it free floated on Tim’s suggestion, and the rifle didn’t vibrate itself apart at the seams, yet. So I’ll continue this free-floating experiment a while longer .

You say on a pleasasnt day though, br shooters have to shoot in the same wind, and they dont shoot 6.5,7mm or 30cals even though they would if they gave them an advantage.

 

[davidjoe]

At 600 the 6’s are considered practically unfair. But do you guys also get good results at 1,000 with 6’s?

 

[swd]

If DTAC’s in a 243 only shoot 194/5’s then you need to try a BRX or Dasher with 105 or 109 Berger’s. On a pleasant day 198-200 is quite doable.

 

[sdean]

Two different disciplines. 5 shots in 20 seconds compared 20 shots in 5 minutes or more

 

[LVLAaron]

Two different disciplines. 5 shots in 20 seconds compared 20 shots in 5 minutes or more

100%.

Try pair firing on a windy day with a 6mm in F-Class. You'll not go home happy.

 

[Rope2horns]

At 600 the 6’s are considered practically unfair. But do you guys also get good results at 1,000 with 6’s?

Unfair?.....There was one 6mm in the top twenty (19th) at MR (600yrds) nationals. Looks like another magnum won MR Nationals AGAIN.....8 out of the last 9 years.

 

[davidjoe]

Unfair?.....There was one 6mm in the top twenty (19th) at MR (600yrds) nationals. Looks like another magnum won MR Nationals AGAIN.....8 out of the last 9 years.

6’s for X’s at 600 in Texas,
7’s for the prize where balloons fill the skies,
30’s stay on in bad days in Raton.

 

[Ned Ludd]

You say on a pleasasnt day though, br shooters have to shoot in the same wind, and they dont shoot 6.5,7mm or 30cals even though they would if they gave them an advantage.

Sorry, but they normally don't. A full string for F-Class may stretch to over 20 min time from the first record shot to the last. Pit service and/or e-target delay also limits how quickly the string can be completed. Wind changes over that long period of time and the typical [relatively] slow shooting cadence are fundamental differences between F-Class and BR disciplines, and why F-Class shooters generally choose the highest BC bullets available, and/or larger-than 6mm calibers/cartridges that can be loaded with acceptable precision.

 

[newbieshooter]

You say on a pleasasnt day though, br shooters have to shoot in the same wind, and they dont shoot 6.5,7mm or 30cals even though they would if they gave them an advantage.

https://internationalbenchrest.com/app/ibs/files-module/local/documents/1000%20yard%20Nationals%20RWB%202022.pdf

equipment list shows a fair number of other calibers other than 6mm?

 

[Liven The Dream]

Like this post a Ton.
On the point of availability of Bullets,Brass etc.
I am going to slip to the Lite Side this coming year.
I have two 6 Dasher F/Open Rifles ready. This will be a trail run.
I shoot one at 1000 in CA this Spring but up a 148-5 ?
Bigger is Better !!! Smaller is Cheaper??

Will bring the .284's out for those Special Days

 

[Sandstorm]

Thats what i like about this sport of ours.
Its up to your creativity and engineering to explore what strokes your fire.
All bets are off within the rules of course.
Working on a wildcat myself but thats another day.

 

[Pinkes]

What fps can be expected with the 300wsm and these 250s?

 

[davidjoe]

What fps can be expected with the 300wsm and these 250s?

This target gets as close to an answer as I can give you, because I haven’t shot 250’s in a WSM, and I understand they aren’t an ideal match from talking with someone who tried them. (Long powder columns seem to “start” heavy-for-caliber bullets with lower peak pressure, and longer pocket life).

I believe the 215’s are the ideal bullet for the WSM. For all I know, they would conceivably be ideal in my WM’s, though they are 8 twists. I simply don’t have any to try, nor 245 EOL’s.

Yesterday, I was paired up with a WSM/215 hybrid shooter, at the 1,000 yard Bayou match. Brandon won the pair fire portion of the qualifier match, that begins with 60 individual rounds and ends with 2x15 shot pair fire matches, for a 90 record count day.

Erik won the 60 round individual match by X count, and then Brandon came back, to drop only 1 and 1 in the pair fire matches, and take the overall aggregate, as well as the pair fire matches, by a point over Erik.



In this target, Brandon shot first, and we both converted both of our sighters, so I was always even numbers. The target is displaying the velocity of my last shot, and an SD of 73.3. That would indicate Brandon and I were about 150 FPS apart, at the target.

Clearly, the retained velocity of the 250’s is no assurance of a better score, as I put two further from the 10 than Brandon’s one shot was, and I didn’t beat him in any match, being paired up with him the whole day, and this was as close as it ever was. I have to call wind better and reduce vertical.

This target with a -3 out of 30 shots may possibly be the best score of the pair fire targets yesterday, though. 30 mags being on it may have been an advantage, as quite a few points were dropped. I was happy with my SD’s this weekend, the best one being in the 4’s.

Edit, my shot 6 may actually be the only reason Brandon’s shot 7 went where it did, by inducing him to hold opposite of my point drop, only he knows.

 

[davidjoe]

If “pew pew” is a laser pistol, and “ffft fffft” is a suppressed rifle, then “ka-pow, wah-wah” is long range bullet, that thought it was at a midrange match. These aren’t immune, 2nd pair fire match, warmest part of the day. One observed, but two no-reads. That’s what I needed to find out though, certainly before next week, because Phoenix has direct sunlight on the barrel at every line.

I have said before, the only brand of lead core match bullet that I have used but never blown up in a magnum cartridge is Sierra, and the only LR caliber I have commented was still underserved by match bullet makers was the .338.

The 300 Lapua Scenar shoots a superbly flat waterline, the best I have seen, but you still have be a great wind reader to maximize it. Good, and slowly improving, is more like it, realistically, and indefinitely.

Credit to rewatching a certain Cortina interview, after delamination, but David Tubb’s second DTAC caliber, only, in all this time, the 299 .338, may finally combine a bullet that cannot come apart in string fire, with a drift that betters the smaller calibers.

The .338 has not been able to shoot inside a 7 saum or the 300 WM because, for one, the 250’s BC was comfortably higher, and it can easily match the velocity of a 300 grain .338. The twist rate and brass pressure is zero problem in the 300, but the necessary fast twist rate combined with a hotter barrel, and a hotter day, is too risky.

I’ll have the DTACS and Scenars loaded next week as well as .284’s, and a saum.

 

[XTR]

@Dusty Stevens 13 or so yrs ago there were people shooting 6s at long range. More than a few 6-284s as I understand it, but experience showed that 7s were the best balance of BC and recoil for most shooters. These days some variant of the 284 makes up about 80% of the line in F-open.

About 6 yrs ago there were some guys making lots of noise in mid range with 6s at 600 from the Mississippi east, but when they went out west where the wind blows they didn’t hold up against the 300WSM and the 284s. Many of those matches, in the wind, are still cleans and decided on X count. Drop 2 points in 60 shots and you can fall half way down the leader board.