F-Class @ Camp Perry - 2015

[Mark Walker in TX]

As a shooter out west, maybe you make one and not the other, and if they reverse MR and LR the next year, then the next year you make the other match since it's now close.

[br]
Is Houston west, Mark? Not from my perspective.

This coming from the guy that thinks Phoenix is too far east from San Diego... ( just messing with ya!)

 

[Steve Blair]

This coming from the guy that thinks Phoenix is too far east from San Diego... ( just messing with ya!)

[br]
Hey! It's six hours, that's a long trip. The Suburban can barely make that and do Berger on a tank.

 

[falconpilot]

Mark is making the point that we should all be getting here, including myself. My knee jerk reaction was that about 2015 MR getting moved to Phoenix. In reality, Phoenix is probably one of the only ranges that can and will take on the MR on such short notice. Whether I like driving that far or not, it is a lot of work for all involved running the match.

With that being said, the important take away should be that as F-Class shooters we are now free to having our Nationals roam, allowing shooters from all walks of life, and all parts of the country to shoot a National event. The key to this is making sure that they truly do roam, and don't get stuck in one place year after year. Hopefully in the future, Camp Perry will be on the rotation list for the Nationals as it really is an awesome place to shoot, regardless of the nay sayers.

 

[DE-F-Open]

Actually, Raton does not belong to NRA per se - it belongs to a separate trust known as the Special Contribution Fund. NRA pays for range time at Raton the same as everyone else - same daily rate, same everything. Confusing, convoluted, but true.

As an easterner, I'm ready to see the nationals come east - I hope someone with adequate range space and facilities bids on it. Butner, perhaps?

DE-F-Open

 

[Steve Blair]

There really are few ranges that can handle the F-Class Nationals. It's not just >=50 firing points but having reasonable accommodations and facilities nearby, too. The list, as I see it, is: [br]
1. Camp Perry
2. Camp Butner
3. Whittington Center (Raton)
4. Ben Avery [br]
I am unaware of any other facilities that meet the current requirements. I know that others have hosted before but the numbers are greater now and growing. One of these is East, one is Midwest and two are Southwest. Three of the ranges are subject to cold weather and one will kill you in the summer. Seems like there ought to be some scheme that uses all four ranges alternately that would displease everyone.

 

[XTR]

This is that good news bad news thing.

Those who have shot at Perry how many times have you heard "That's just they way they do it at Perry" to explain any number of "WTF?" moments? Nobody comes home from Perry and feels compelled to post what a wonderful job was done running the match.

That said, the mid-range was fun. The only "Camp Perry" type issue I saw at the MR championship was rotating the relays to start in the to the pits every day and and rotating all the competitors relays every day so the same shooters went to the pits first on the first two days. (well, that and trying to get the awards office to figure out if you won anything, and the awards ceremony is just that, no food)

Regarding the Long Range FCNC, I don't believe Camp Perry is prepared or even able to run an F class National the way it's been run for the past three yrs at least. Daily re-squadding I don't see it happening. I can imagine the powers that be would want to try to shoe horn it into the current National Matches format. So from the perspective of the quality of the match I'm happy to see it not there. However, for all of the shooters east of the Mississippi, it's a ridiculously long haul to get to Raton, and PHX is 3/4 of the way across the continent, and doing MR and LR in conjunction is going to make it long on the calendar too.

Phoenix was too long a haul for me this yr so I made Camp Perry my big trip for shooting. It would be nice to have at least one national on this half of the continent.

 

[Jdne5b]

Would you need 50 firing points if you held a FTR National Championship, and F-Open Championship, separately?

How would shooters feel about having separate matches, if it would increase the number of ranges available to host a NC?

 

[DE-F-Open]

Someone suggested doing it this way:

Three days of F-T/R followed by Team Day ( both T/R & Open) followed by 3 days of F-Open (or visa versa) - given current levels of participation in each rifle type, Lodi or any range of similar size could probably handle it - assuming all other requirements are met

That, of course changes the format by putting Team at the end of one and the beginning of the other, but leaves the rest of the format as it currently is run.

DE-F-Open

 

[Lbart]

Doing it that way you are up to 7 days of shooting without any practice days + you have to figure in travel time. My gut tells me we may be trying to please everyone at the possible detriment of most.

 

[Ringostar]

I'm in favor of splitting the days of TR and open. It would also allow shooters to do both. I like the idea of mid and long being separated to different ranges. It all can help to getting a larger variety of ranges to shoot at. If ranges know that it all can be moved around each year. maybe more would be willing to expand. We used less than 50 targets for the individual days at Phoenix. If TR and open are held separate days, it could be held on a 25 target range.

 

[falconpilot]

Ringo

Don't forget that if they are held seperate that you'll have a large number of shooters that will shot both, and it might require more firing points than you are thinking..

 

[Ringostar]

Yes, if held on separate days. More people might start shooting both. I already saw Danny and Jim raise there hands to shoot both while we were in the meeting.

 

[Dos XX]

I'm in favor of splitting the days of TR and open. It would also allow shooters to do both.

This is the problem. Then it still means you need more than 50 firing points if everyone wants to shoot both.

Reality is that if this sport continues to grow, their will be more participants. The list that Steve Blair gave is pretty accurate. Raton could be added in that it has the firing points, but do they have the infrastructure?

 

[Steve Blair]

Whittington Center in Raton includes the High Power Range. The facilities in Raton/Trinidad are just Ok. It is in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Immike]

I'm not too sure that the mid range couldn't be handled at a smaller range such as 20 firing points. Especially if it was split up. Just a thought.

 

[Va Jim]

It is easy for us to sit here and talk about what ranges can accommodate a FCNC. One must also factor in the support personnel needed to run such a match.

I also would love to see one on the East Coast. Could it happen, well anything is possible but the range/club would need to apply to NRA to host such a event. Look at the extreme amount of work it would take to accomplish it.

Quite a few members of the Butner Club are now involved in National teams both F and Sling style, We also Host the Sinclair Fullbore match in April.

Point I'm making is what are you all willing to do to see these things happen. Lots of decisions to be made and thinking to do.

Thanks you John and Earl for listening.

James Crofts
VA Jim

 

[Warren Dean]

Someone suggested doing it this way:

Three days of F-T/R followed by Team Day ( both T/R & Open) followed by 3 days of F-Open (or visa versa) - given current levels of participation in each rifle type, Lodi or any range of similar size could probably handle it - assuming all other requirements are met

That, of course changes the format by putting Team at the end of one and the beginning of the other, but leaves the rest of the format as it currently is run.

DE-F-Open

John, thanks for taking the interest and time to listen to the shooters at Phoenix. And thanks to Earl as well.

I'm OK with almost anything as long as it doesn't involve hijacking the FCNC to Perry in perpetuity.

Now I'm going to go get some popcorn and watch the histrionics!

 

[Warren Dean]

It is easy for us to sit here and talk about what ranges can accommodate a FCNC. One must also factor in the support personnel needed to run such a match.

I also would love to see one on the East Coast. Could it happen, well anything is possible but the range/club would need to apply to NRA to host such a event. Look at the extreme amount of work it would take to accomplish it.

Quite a few members of the Butner Club are now involved in National teams both F and Sling style, We also Host the Sinclair Fullbore match in April.

Point I'm making is what are you all willing to do to see these things happen. Lots of decisions to be made and thinking to do.

Thanks you John and Earl for listening.

James Crofts
VA Jim

Well put, Jim.

 

[Warren Dean]

Whittington Center in Raton includes the High Power Range. The facilities in Raton/Trinidad are just Ok. It is in the middle of nowhere.

You are being very generous there, Steve. ;D

 

[ryanjay11]

The F-Class Great Lakes Long Range Regional will NOT be held in conjunction with the NRA's Long Range
National Championships in 2015.

Maybe I missed it, but what does this have to do with F-Class Nationals (MR and LR) being a moving match?

I agree with several previous posts that Perry is probably not the ideal location for F-Class Nationals(at least during the National Matches), but why completely cut F-Class out of the program? How is one less regional a considered a good thing for the sport? With the growth of F-Class, shouldn't more high profile matches be the goal? ???