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Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

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Teslas catching on fire after Ian

No big deal, as designed they're disposable anyway. They'll never be economically repaired, and where will all the EV repair specialists come from? They're a rich man's toy so few tears will be shed, just buy another one.
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From SeekingAlpha this morning. How many planet-saving units are they likely to sell?
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Top luxury automakers are jumping into the EV game by ditching their engines and revving their motors. Rolls-Royce just unveiled its first electric vehicle called the Spectre, with the first cars slated to come off the assembly line in 2023. The vehicle comes with a whopping price tag of $413,000, making it one of the most expensive EVs on the market, and creates a new auto class the company refers to as "Ultra-Luxury Electric Super Coupé." ...
Elsewhere: Cadillac this week unveiled its Celestiq electric vehicle, which will start at more than $300,000. Orders are slated to open later this year, followed by production beginning in December 2023.
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"Just ... follow the money."
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The vehicle comes with a whopping price tag of $413,000, making it one of the most expensive EVs on the market, and creates a new auto class the company refers to as "Ultra-Luxury Electric Super Coupé." ...
Elsewhere: Cadillac this week unveiled its Celestiq electric vehicle, which will start at more than $300,000. Orders are slated to open later this year, followed by production beginning in December 2023.
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Buy 2 ea. They're small.
 
There are no "self-driving" cars on the road, except perhaps a few experimental ones in certain small pilot cities. The only cars approved for general use are "Autonomous Level 2", defined (emphasis added):

"Automation system is doing most of the driving, including steering, braking, and accelerating in specific scenarios, but driver must remain alert and is required to actively supervise the technology at all times."
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Update on driverless vehicle progress (Yahoo! Finance, 29 Oct 2022):

The driverless tech industry hit a couple of snags this week.

First came news in Ford’s (F) Q3 earnings report that the automaker was shutting down its Argo AI autonomous driving joint venture. Ford said it would be taking a $2.7 billion non-cash, pretax impairment on its investment in Argo AI, with engineers and other employees being absorbed by Ford and its Argo AI partner, Volkswagen. Volkswagen said it would take a $1.9 billion charge from the winding down of Argo.

Then Reuters reported that the Justice Department began a criminal probe last year looking into several crashes involving Tesla’s Autopilot driver assistance system, which was activated during those accidents, and whether Tesla made fraudulent claims about its driver assistance technology's capabilities.

Argo AI and Tesla were both pursuing the goal of Level 4 and Level 5 driving automation — while using different strategies to get there. Argo AI worked with authorities and stakeholders like cyclist and pedestrian safety organizations to help shape its product, whereas Tesla made its users and even the open roads of the U.S. its beta testing playground.

In any case, “it’s become clear it’s going to take longer than what investors really wanted to hear," Philip Koopman, Carnegie Mellon associate professor and self-driving expert, told Yahoo Finance.

Doug Field, Ford’s chief product and tech officer, said during the company’s earnings call this week that level 4 self-driving "is going to be a really tough problem to solve." Field, a former long-time Tesla engineer, added that the task will be "the toughest problem of our generation."

Ford said its struggles with developing fully-autonomous Level 4 and Level 5 tech was both a capital and talent issue, meaning the automaker did not know how much capital and talent it would need to solve the problem. Ultimately, the cost was something that Ford and Volkswagen were unwilling to bear.
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Automakers have spent close to $75 billion developing autonomous technology, though there is not much there to show for it yet.

So what happened to an industry that UBS said would have a total addressable market worth close to $2.8 trillion by 2030?

No one seemed to fully price in the challenges — from a technological, capital resources, and policy perspective — that would make the self-driving puzzle so hard to solve.

Wall Street is now assessing that the promise of autonomous driving is too far off and is valuing the tech accordingly. Intel’s spin off and IPO of its Mobileye autonomous tech unit recently garnered a $16 billion valuation after being valued at $50 billion a year ago.
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As for Tesla, CEO Elon Musk recently doubled down on his company's ability to solve the Level 4/Level5 problem.

“You're going to have no one in the car by the end of this year," Musk said on the company's most recent earnings call. "And certainly, without a question, that's whatever is in my mind next year,” he said. “I think we'll also have an update next year to be able to show to regulators that the [self-driving] car is safer, much so than the average human.”

However, with regulators like the DOJ, SEC, and the NHTSA investigating dozens of crashes involving Tesla's self-driving software, there is some uncertainty as to when Tesla can fully launch its Level 4 / Level 5 platform.

“Where’s the difference between puffery and fraud? I don’t know,” Koopman said, describing it as a legal question for lawyers and the DOJ.

Legal issues aside, Koopman explained, there isn’t much in the way of what a regulator can do when a permit is requested for the deployment or live phase beyond approving the permit if the testing phase has gone smoothly. Once it’s live or in deployment, like Waymo and Cruise are in California, regulators can monitor performance for safety issues.

“There is no regulatory hurdle to Tesla other than actually getting their technology to work,” Koopman said.

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I haven't read all 46 pages of this post, so I apologize if I missed this already. But there is one important point of electric vehicles - they can control when, and if you can charge your car and travel. So, if they choose to lock us down, they can truly do so. You are cooked until they allow you to travel again. A lot of environmental hype is designed to break this country's back.
 
500,000 pounds of raw materials must be mined to create a single Tesla battery pack.

One analyst says that a typical electric car represents MORE CO2 emissions than a gasoline car for the first 50-60,000 miles, because of the CO2 generated in the creation of the battery and vehicle.

FWIW, just the other day, where I live, someone mysteriously drove a Tesla on to a California beach and then into the water. I actually talked to the recovery crew in the evening.


The Co. Sheriffs say the car was not stolen. The Sheriff’s Office found the registered owner of the vehicle later in the day. The driver “thought he would go driving on the beach,” Sheriff’s spokesperson Raquel Zick related, “and got stuck.” No charges were being brought, she said, and it was the owner’s responsibility to remove the car. No hazardous materials were found to have been spilled into the marsh, said Noah Tunney, a battalion chief with the Carp-Summerland fire department.



1667401688193.png
 
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I haven't read all 46 pages of this post, so I apologize if I missed this already. But there is one important point of electric vehicles - they can control when, and if you can charge your car and travel. So, if they choose to lock us down, they can truly do so. You are cooked until they allow you to travel again. A lot of environmental hype is designed to break this country's back.
Not if you have your own generator.

The real problem is any newer car, that has WIFI, Navigation systems, Satellite communication and such are susceptible to outside control.

"Hacked Jeeps" is an entertaining search and dates back to 2015


Mobil Technology means losing control
 
I saw a young couple with groceries standing behind their Tesla, she impatient holding bags, he muttering fiddling with his smart phone. After a minute the lid popped open. Ponder that.
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I've owned several. I am a big proponent of them, but not a koolaide drinker as EVs are not appropriate for all circumstances. Some things of note.

Owned a Prius for 10-years. Bought new. Lifetime average driving all over the country for shooting matches 47.1mpg. Sold at 250,000 miles and it never went to the shop. 7 sets of tires and 50 oil changes/filters and brake pads/rotors about it.

Currently own a Chevy Volt. Bought new, 209,000 miles. About $20k out the door after rebates. Also never been in the shop for a fix. Did recently take it there for coolant change, software update and trans oil change. Also driven around the country for matches.

Own a Kia Soul EV all-electric. 38k miles since new, 4 years old. $14k after rebates. Had to replace the battery control module under warranty this year (free).

Best quick comment would be this. Yukon XL daily round trip to work at $4 gas, about $11. Prius $2.40. Volt $0.66 (yes 66 cents) (can just make it on electricity alone, 0.06 cents per kWh cost). Kia about $0.45.

Have reams of info for the interested, but they are not the panacea and do not make sense for everyone.

If you have a very specific question happy to answer, but do so by DM so I see it.

Drew
 
I've owned several. I am a big proponent of them, but not a koolaide drinker as EVs are not appropriate for all circumstances. Some things of note.

Owned a Prius for 10-years. Bought new. Lifetime average driving all over the country for shooting matches 47.1mpg. Sold at 250,000 miles and it never went to the shop. 7 sets of tires and 50 oil changes/filters and brake pads/rotors about it.

Currently own a Chevy Volt. Bought new, 209,000 miles. About $20k out the door after rebates. Also never been in the shop for a fix. Did recently take it there for coolant change, software update and trans oil change. Also driven around the country for matches.

Own a Kia Soul EV all-electric. 38k miles since new, 4 years old. $14k after rebates. Had to replace the battery control module under warranty this year (free).

Best quick comment would be this. Yukon XL daily round trip to work at $4 gas, about $11. Prius $2.40. Volt $0.66 (yes 66 cents) (can just make it on electricity alone, 0.06 cents per kWh cost). Kia about $0.45.

Have reams of info for the interested, but they are not the panacea and do not make sense for everyone.

If you have a very specific question happy to answer, but do so by DM so I see it.

Drew
Specific questions: What monetary values were the "rebates" on each of those EV purchases? And were the rebates essentially from our government coffers?

Finally, I see you live in ND. EIA.gov lists the average price for electricity in ND as $0.0853 pr KwH. Where do you find it so cheap?
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Specific questions: What monetary values were the "rebates" on each of those EV purchases? And were the rebates essentially from our government coffers?

Finally, I see you live in ND. EIA.gov lists the average price for electricity in ND as $0.0853 pr KwH. Where do you find it so cheap?
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For both vehicles, there was a $7500 federal rebate available to us that was credited against our federal taxes, and yes, against the US coffers. With the new legislation, signed late summer, the rebates have been changed with the specific requirement that the battery be manufactured in the US. This severely restricts which vehicles now qualify (there are some other limitations also). It also added a $4000 rebate for a dealer purchased used EV provided it was a single owner vehicle (and some other restrictions on price/federal tax liability).

We use an electric coop and there are quite progressive. They did not offer off-peak rates for EV recharging in 2013 when we purchased the Chevy Volt, but did implement them in 2018 when we got the Kia. It allows them to "ripple" us, thereby controlling the hours we are able to utilize the charger. Rate goes from about $0.092/kWh to 0.056/kWh under this plan which we also use for our geothermal heating. Drew
 
Not if you have your own generator.

The real problem is any newer car, that has WIFI, Navigation systems, Satellite communication and such are susceptible to outside control.

"Hacked Jeeps" is an entertaining search and dates back to 2015


Mobil Technology means losing control
I'm running a diesel generator now flooding duck ponds with a deep well, 20KW. 50 gallons of diesel every 36 hours. How long to charge a car? But, I guess what difference does it make if they can turn the car off.

My newest car is 16 years old.
 
This could almost make me forget my misgivings about 'lectric vehicles:

GT Electric, by Totem Automobili

MED-1536x1024.jpg


DSC_8115.jpg


DSC_8116.jpg


DSC_7946.jpg



Of course, if the electric variant won't do, they are also making a few examples of the GT Super (a twin-turbocharged V6), which is lighter and comes with very similar performance specs.
 
I'm running a diesel generator now flooding duck ponds with a deep well, 20KW. 50 gallons of diesel every 36 hours. How long to charge a car? But, I guess what difference does it make if they can turn the car off.

My newest car is 16 years old.

My wife's driving habits around town in her electric car (2015) in our climate -30 to 100oF has an average of 4 miles per kWh. I travel widely throughout the US in mine and do about 3 miles per kWh. So if your generator were 100% efficient at 20kW and 36 hr it would provide 20x36x4 miles (2880) for my wife's car for the 50 gallons or almost 58 mpg. No bad, but as you can see presumes a lot of things.

Mileage in electric cars is dependent upon a lot of factors similar to gas vehicles but moreso. The 720kWh your generator produced at probably about $250 ($5 diesel) would be about $40.52 for my home charger at off peak prices (also assuming 100% efficiency).

Again, electric cars are definitely not for everyone, but can be a major saving for the right households.

Drew
 
Got the latest report from my son on his Chevy Bolt. The weather over the last few days has been fairly brutal with temps around 0 to 10 F, strong northerly winds, and heavy snow. They are anticipating -15 today. He says, so far, they have seen a 70 to 80km decrease in range (about 20%). Part of this is due to battery efficiency loss while some is due to the use of winter tires and the use of heater etc. The heater is good, and heat is instant. He hates the traction control and wishes the default setting was off so the car would get around better in the snow. I also hate electronic traction control on any vehicle, so I'm with him on that.
Even with the reduced range, the car is working out well as a daily driver. A trip into town is about 12 miles for them and a trip into Calgary is about 45 miles. The car is great for this, but it wouldn't make it to my place on its best day (about 270 miles). We are heading down to Moscow, Id, next weekend and they will be joining us there. They will drive their 13 year old Hyundai Sonata for this trip, as they do for any long trip.
So, as expected, the EV works great as a daily commuter and is not really usable for longer trips. There is a definite loss in efficiency in cold weather. This is also not unexpected, but it is manageable. WH
 
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