Don't outspend them, but out work em!

[Peterson1]

"The harder you work
The luckier you will get"

CLP

 

[Rope2horns]

For a guy starting out in Fclass...I would say learn to tune your rifle good enough to get reliable wind feedback during your practice or within your string of fire. Then build on both.
A crappy rifle shoots fliers in all directions.....one up wind 9 flier can be the set up for several more and leave a new guy lost on a sinking ship.....bottom line try to start with a honest rifle if you plan to get serious. The learning curve will be shorter IMO.

The most accurate rifles don't win Fclass matches and neither do the worst ones.

A top tier wind reader that knows how to manage a not so in tune rifle can typically finish well, but may not be capable of winning a large event.

A shooter that has no wind reading skills but a great rifle can chase the spotter and will probably score decent in the mildest of conditions. Take the same shooter and throw in several switches or angle changes pickup/letoffs its a different game.

 

[LRPV]

600/1000 BR. While it’s all a system where everything has to be accounted for, a perfect tune will not guarantee a win however a bad tune will guarantee that you won’t win.

 

[Tim Singleton]

In rereading Mikes initial question
WHY Winners win matches?
I have to hang my hat on not only the ability to tune a rifle to its best potential
But keep it there all day. Long range, short range it doesn’t matter group or score doesn’t matter
the guy with a rifle tuned to the max and he can drive the bullet . Is miles ahead of the rest of the field
spend you time learning to tune and stay in tune over the course of 2,3 or 4 days
with that in tune rifle you can then watch your flags and be able to steer the bullet because the rifle is in tune!

 

[CamTheBam]

In my experience, wind reading is about 90% of the game.

I've tried my damnedest to win this game at the reloading bench and in front of the computer pouring over spreadsheets and reading forums such as this. But it hasn't gotten me very far! I've got a rifle/scope combo that will shoot five shots into 0.0525" C-T-C at 100yds, and ammo which has single digit ES &SD - but at 500yds I'm regularly one side of the 3 ring to the opposite side (we score 1-5 + V bull), because I can't read wind worth a damn! Very frustrating and discouraging!

 

[JEFFPPC]

So after rereading this just now several times here are my observations. Mulligan brought up an excellent point about observing top shooters. When I first started in the 90s shooting IBS I would stand behind the good shooters watching them and their flags. I learned a lot , not only about flags but using the available time, having a condition in mind before going to the line and knowing when to jump on it right now and when to use all the time. I disagree with shooting in a headwind/tailwind, I hate that and only do it if the only other option is a constant back and forth twitchy condition. Funny thing is I have won matches shooting a strong head or tail when everyone else was shooting the twitch. I see way too muc dependence on the gun giving little thought, time, or effort to flags and bench manners. Shooting little groups in perfect practice conditions is not the end all to shooting winning scores, especially in score matches. So if I am putting my money down I will take the game day shooter over the tech-na_cat any day. Given all I just said I don't believe most shooters have developed a tuning process that works for them, just try to copycat on what they read.I noted one other thing, I can't believe Bart likes the headwind tailwind, ugh. That is a don't shoot sign for me, usually. This is an interesting thread, not to many of these .

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

So after rereading this just now several times here are my observations. Mulligan brought up an excellent point about observing top shooters. When I first started in the 90s shooting IBS I would stand behind the good shooters watching them and their flags. I learned a lot , not only about flags but using the available time, having a condition in mind before going to the line and knowing when to jump on it right now and when to use all the time. I disagree with shooting in a headwind/tailwind, I hate that and only do it if the only other option is a constant back and forth twitchy condition. Funny thing is I have won matches shooting a strong head or tail when everyone else was shooting the twitch. I see way too muc dependence on the gun giving little thought, time, or effort to flags and bench manners. Shooting little groups in perfect practice conditions is not the end all to shooting winning scores, especially in score matches. So if I am putting my money down I will take the game day shooter over the tech-na_cat any day. Given all I just said I don't believe most shooters have developed a tuning process that works for them, just try to copycat on what they read.I noted one other thing, I can't believe Bart likes the headwind tailwind, ugh. That is a don't shoot sign for me, usually. This is an interesting thread, not to many of these .

I agree with you 100% Jeff! And I try my best not to have to shoot a head or tail wind. Sometimes, to my own detriment, though. There are times it's the best condition you're gonna get but it can eat you alive too. I have to laugh when I see these wind charts that deem head and tail winds as "no value". And worse is that switchy 11-1 or 5-7 o clock stuff.
I remember a match a few years ago where conditions were pretty brutal. I worked my tail off trying to shoot a cross wind and kept getting my tail handed to me. A pretty new shooter was leading or near so. I asked him what he was doing and of course he looked at me like I was nuts and said he was shooting the head or tail..I forget which. I just bit my tongue thinking he'd back up to me when it bit him. It never did. I finally shot it on the last card and I think it was my best of the day. Go figure! I MIGHT be a little hard headed. Lol!

 

[JFrank]

At Lr br If all I had to think about was a headwind I would be a happy camper, we get head wind changing to a 1-2:00 quite often and that one has bit me more than once.

 

[tom]

We're stuck with headwinds about 90% of the time at the 1,000 yard line at deep creek. It's especially comforting when an hour change on a less than 1 mph is moving bullets high and to the right. That never messes with my head ever!

Tom

 

[JMayo]

I get ahead of my self and start taking chances.... I've identified several weak spots from last year....hold, condition choice, trigger slap. I've blown the last target more times than i can count on my fingers becauseI I get frustrated with sighters vs score target poi.

Controlling the "lead"..... more than a crosshair width or less than.
9 ring hold ? 8 ring hold? Click the scope?

All this adds up in my head and becomes a f'it pull of the trigger and allot of misses.
My desire for next season is to calm down on last card, "don't swing on the ball before it gets here but swing on strikes quick.
Every year i come back with better skill. I've got to use that & not make the same errors over and over.

I think my reloading skills are sound and consistent. My tuning also produces good results. My equipment is good and GS is good

 

[afrench]

I actually would argue that. So long as it holds zero the glass doesn't need to be great. I shot back back ones at 1k in a registered match with the worst glass I have ever owned on a br rifle. There's an x in the middle of the target but this scope will not resolve it in perfect conditions.

Exactly. my worst scope, a Sightron 36, is sitting on top of my railgun.

 

[JFrank]

Like Tom said we get these weird winds at DC and I have been conservative in switching winds to hold over far enough in fear of over correcting or let offs, but Im discovering if your not willing to make a bold holdover once in a while you’ll probably get beat anyway.

 

[Baka]

Patience. As an F-Class shooter, reading the wind conditions is most of the battle, because all the top shooters generally bring excellent equipment and know how to tune a load. Those that pay the most attention to reading the wind conditions, but also have the patience to wait when necessary, usually avoid the train wrecks and finish at the top. It's not easy to do, but more often than not, when a shooter becomes impatient and takes a shot they suspect might be "risky", it usually is, and dropped points will be the most likely result.

You sure got me pegged.

 

[Shooter13]

I MIGHT be a little hard headed. Lol!

Ya think????

 

[Ahhnother8]

Bottom line here, what matters most to you? Tune or learning how to tune vs how to read the flags and not make any mistakes. Of course conditions play into this but assume an "average" day where you are.

Currently kind of do it all to some extent (Palma, F-TR, F-Open, LR BR, SR BR). All trigger time is great, but being a jack-of-all-trades is likely not a great strategy. Tuning/loading/gun handling is a bit of a challenge.

In all of the disciplines, it's a given that a good to great shooting rifle is mandatory to win. In calm conditions, any number of people can win, with the exceptional equipment that we all have. As the wind picks up, the scores/groups spread out and the usual suspects move to the top. So, as to your question: how to read the flags is the final answer. Mirage can also be helpful at times, but a lying mother at other times.

Regardless of preparation and performance, luck can also play a huge part in outcomes. Don't really care at the local matches, but it is extremely disheartening at the national/international ones.

And two things that I always keep in mind: The wind is MY friend, but it hates the rest of you. Never give up, Never surrender.

Lane

 

[Todd Earhart]

This is a good thread and I look forward to reading it fully this weekend.
Todd

 

[D Coots]

SR here. When you're at the line watching those good shooters and the flags, you may need to take into consideration that he's holding for some shots.

 

[JEFFPPC]

SR here. When you're at the line watching those good shooters and the flags, you may need to take into consideration that he's holding for some shots.

That's a good thought. But knowing the conditions he picks is of great value plus you will learn how disciplined he is in shooting only when his condition comes around. I often shoot a condition not holding center or maybe not even in the 10 ring because that condition and that hold puts you on the dot. If you know "the spot" no need to keep clicking, now your wasting valuble time. 5+5=10 but 7 +3 =10 also.

 

[D Coots]

That's a good thought. But knowing the conditions he picks is of great value plus you will learn how disciplined he is in shooting only when his condition comes around. I often shoot a condition not holding center or maybe not even in the 10 ring because that condition and that hold puts you on the dot. If you know "the spot" no need to keep clicking, now your wasting valuble time. 5+5=10 but 7 +3 =10 also.

What's clicking....

 

[Tim Singleton]

What's clicking....

What happens when you shoot the cross wind!