Don't outspend them, but out work em!

[AlNyhus]

When starting this game you can be stubborn like me and think you can do it with what you have. You usually can't so you have to outspend everyone else just to catch up, then you need to learn how to do it and or use it.

Knowing what to spend your resources on is the hardest thing to come to grips with, especially for those starting out.

A double throw down, CNC machined, .0001 dimensioned press packaged by Swedish virgins in the moonlight while drinking Perrier might not do as good as a loosey-goosey Partner press, for example.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Shooter13]

Not to derail the thread but I can tell you this. Every-time I sat down to shoot a score target at the Tack Driver, I was uncomfortable as Hell and shaking like a crack-baby.

Bart

Now sir, that is really funny coming from you!

 

[jcline]

UBR requires 6!

IBS and NBRSA require 25 good shots, UBR requires 24.

 

[JEFFPPC]

UBR requires 6!

In a roundabout way perhaps but you miss my point. In score whether you have a 5 shot or 6 shot target, every shot has full value. In group that first shot just needs to be in the scoring area, anywhere. The only thing I don't agree with in the UBR game are what to me are crazy classes and too many of them. The UBR concept with no real demanding governing body is the best thing going overall in my opinion. My attitude is if I go to your match I expect to play by your rules. If you come to my match we will use my rules. Pretty simple. One thing I believe in, the more rules you have the more problems you bring on.

 

[rwj]

When starting this game you can be stubborn like me and think you can do it with what you have. You usually can't so you have to outspend everyone else just to catch up, then you need to learn how to do it and or use it.
This is why young guys are not getting into the game. It is an easy 8-10k just to play on an equal level.
Reason why IBS needs to recognize a FACTORY class. Then anyone can afford to play and build from there.

Bingo! An easy way to increase participation is to have a place for the most common firearms… factory! USPSA is a great example where there are pistol divisions for every day carry thru race guns. It’s been a few years since I’ve been active, but the head count was the highest in divisions where “off-the-shelf” guns could be used. I think that the shooters in those divisions had more fun! Once the hook was set, many made the time and financial investment in better equipment when they could…

 

[Fuj]

Fuj.....flags, 6mm(pick one), flags

LOL.... Ya' ought to know me by now !! Ain't happening.....lOL
I just have too much fun creating, experimenting, and testing
under match conditions. I will take your advice about a tuner
though. It's almost funny that Mike started this thread and
mentioned "outspending" when I'm currently waiting on a call
from him about a tuner.....Yeah Buddy $$$$$

 

[JEFFPPC]

IBS and NBRSA require 25 good shots, UBR requires 24.

The comparison is group vs score not how many targets. If EVERYONE was honest we could do both on one target with no moving backers. But that's not real life. I like the format of both disciplines at one match like your Tackdrive but without a moving backer not a good format to do on one target scoring both goup and score. But hey, as long as there is a match to go to I am happy and will adapt as needed, or stay home with the Springer. No loading, no cleaning, and .04 per shot.

 

[JEFFPPC]

When I first joined AS I would chat with a fella from the Midwest that told me to get good equipment and learn how to use it, I think that was good advice. I’m still in the right line…

My question to @BartsBullets is how did you finally get your nerves under control during that event ?

SPJ, you nailed it!

 

[rayporter]

a factory class has zero chance of success. you must classify the shooters not the rifle.

 

[rjtfroggy]

a factory class has zero chance of success. you must classify the shooters not the rifle.

IDK I've seen some factory rifles that shoot pretty damn good.
Also it would be factory against factory not against custom.

 

[rwj]

a factory class has zero chance of success. you must classify the shooters not the rifle.

If there is a serious concern about what has been reported as dwindling participation, what do you suggest as a remedy?

 

[diego-ted]

Patience. As an F-Class shooter, reading the wind conditions is most of the battle, because all the top shooters generally bring excellent equipment and know how to tune a load. Those that pay the most attention to reading the wind conditions, but also have the patience to wait when necessary, usually avoid the train wrecks and finish at the top. It's not easy to do, but more often than not, when a shooter becomes impatient and takes a shot they suspect might be "risky", it usually is, and dropped points will be the most likely result.

Yepper

 

[Shooter13]

LOL.... Ya' ought to know me by now !! Ain't happening.....lOL
I just have too much fun creating, experimenting, and testing
under match conditions. I will take your advice about a tuner
though. It's almost funny that Mike started this thread and
mentioned "outspending" when I'm currently waiting on a call
from him about a tuner.....Yeah Buddy $$$$$

Good call on Mikes tuner! My advise is "listen" as he tells you how to use it, don't have preconceived notions of what "others" have said. Then since you like to play do the "test" Mike tells you about and watch the bullet move group size and POI
Take care!

 

[rayporter]

IDK I've seen some factory rifles that shoot pretty damn good.
Also it would be factory against factory not against custom.

many factory rifle classes have been tried and success has been poor to nonexistent. frequently the better shooters will shoot a factory rifle to just shoot another class which defeats the purpose.

until a handicap system for shooters is successful that keeps the top shooters shooting against each other and new shooters or mid pack shooters competing against each other i dont see a factory class having a chance in anything but club level for group shooting.

 

[Shooter13]

IBS and NBRSA require 25 good shots, UBR requires 24.

Understood and I know really nothing about them but like @JEFFPPC was talking about in group you basically have 5 free shots, correct? If the first shot doesn't go where you want then you chase it?

 

[Shooter13]

The only thing I don't agree with in the UBR game are what to me are crazy classes and too many of them.

We have Factory, modified, custom and unlimited, what would you change? I have started several times to shoot factory along with custom and unlimited but a factory rifle that can't be changed (except recrowning) still has to come in at 13.5 lbs, a Savage benchrest 12 weight is 12.75 lbs then add rings and scope so the first thing you have to do is cut the barrel and crown it to bring it to weight.
Thanks,
Frankie

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

LOL.... Ya' ought to know me by now !! Ain't happening.....lOL
I just have too much fun creating, experimenting, and testing
under match conditions. I will take your advice about a tuner
though. It's almost funny that Mike started this thread and
mentioned "outspending" when I'm currently waiting on a call
from him about a tuner.....Yeah Buddy $$$$$

I'll be calling in just a few minutes. Messed around and let my phone battery go just about dead.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

We have Factory, modified, custom and unlimited, what would you change? I have started several times to shoot factory along with custom and unlimited but a factory rifle that can't be changed (except recrowning) still has to come in at 13.5 lbs, a Savage benchrest 12 weight is 12.75 lbs then add rings and scope so the first thing you have to do is cut the barrel and crown it to bring it to weight.
Thanks,
Frankie

I wouldn't change much. UBR has a good thing going. It's working and still growing, even in these times where everything is hard to get and expensive.

Some ranges have had very good factory classes and some, not so much. ARA rimfire is a great example of factory class really working out well. There are a bunch of factory guns at some matches. It might need tweaked here or there but has been very successful, imo.

Modified is about bringing out old br rifles that are in a safe somewhere and are very affordable. Not to mention, there are some fine shooting modifieds out there but I think some still feel outgunned at matches where there is no class that distinguishes them from the latest and greatest, and most expensive equipment. You can pick up a good modified rifle for under $1000 often. That's the bargain class, even more so than factory unless you get lucky and go randomly buy a great shooting factory rifle. The only thing I'd change about UBR that I can think of is the top award. It's the 4 gun award which includes factory. That incentivizes the best shooters to shoot a class that I'd like to see used mostly as a breeding ground for new shooters. Make the top award a 3 gun and call it good. But that's just my opinion and I'm not lobbying either way. I'm happy with the game and enjoy it more than others and I've shot most all of them.

Custom is essentially the same gun used in most other score venues...a 13.5lb br rifle with a 3" wide forearm but without the other silly stock rules that never get checked.

Unlimited is for guns that somehow fail to fit in one of the other classes and/or for those that like to experiment a lot. Basically no restrictions other than 30 cal or less.

All of the classes require the same work ethic and there aren't any ranges that I know of that are gonna make winning easy on ya. Ya still have to out work them more than anything, IMO. UBR Modified class is a good example of not having to break the bank in order to compete.

 

[Shooter13]

until a handicap system for shooters is successful that keeps the top shooters shooting against each other and new shooters or mid pack shooters competing against each other

This would induce "sandbagging" like in golf. What is your handicap? Oh, I'm a 12! (when they were really a 2) Thing about a true factory class is not to many "top" shooters are going to want to go there I wouldn't think. However I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken

 

[Ccrider]

Most experienced shooters don’t guess. if they make a tuner adjustmen or a load adjustment they test it on the sighter
I go to the line every target with the load I’ve been shooting and one on either side of it. If I have time after I have finished the score card or group and I think that tune is going away. I test those loads I have with me for the next target. I thought that’s what everyone did

How many of each load?