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Don't outspend them, but out work em!

The only thing I don't agree with in the UBR game are what to me are crazy classes and too many of them.
We have Factory, modified, custom and unlimited, what would you change? I have started several times to shoot factory along with custom and unlimited but a factory rifle that can't be changed (except recrowning) still has to come in at 13.5 lbs, a Savage benchrest 12 weight is 12.75 lbs then add rings and scope so the first thing you have to do is cut the barrel and crown it to bring it to weight.
Thanks,
Frankie
 
LOL.... Ya' ought to know me by now !! Ain't happening.....lOL
I just have too much fun creating, experimenting, and testing
under match conditions. I will take your advice about a tuner
though. It's almost funny that Mike started this thread and
mentioned "outspending" when I'm currently waiting on a call
from him about a tuner.....Yeah Buddy $$$$$ :D
I'll be calling in just a few minutes. Messed around and let my phone battery go just about dead.
 
We have Factory, modified, custom and unlimited, what would you change? I have started several times to shoot factory along with custom and unlimited but a factory rifle that can't be changed (except recrowning) still has to come in at 13.5 lbs, a Savage benchrest 12 weight is 12.75 lbs then add rings and scope so the first thing you have to do is cut the barrel and crown it to bring it to weight.
Thanks,
Frankie
I wouldn't change much. UBR has a good thing going. It's working and still growing, even in these times where everything is hard to get and expensive.

Some ranges have had very good factory classes and some, not so much. ARA rimfire is a great example of factory class really working out well. There are a bunch of factory guns at some matches. It might need tweaked here or there but has been very successful, imo.

Modified is about bringing out old br rifles that are in a safe somewhere and are very affordable. Not to mention, there are some fine shooting modifieds out there but I think some still feel outgunned at matches where there is no class that distinguishes them from the latest and greatest, and most expensive equipment. You can pick up a good modified rifle for under $1000 often. That's the bargain class, even more so than factory unless you get lucky and go randomly buy a great shooting factory rifle. The only thing I'd change about UBR that I can think of is the top award. It's the 4 gun award which includes factory. That incentivizes the best shooters to shoot a class that I'd like to see used mostly as a breeding ground for new shooters. Make the top award a 3 gun and call it good. But that's just my opinion and I'm not lobbying either way. I'm happy with the game and enjoy it more than others and I've shot most all of them.

Custom is essentially the same gun used in most other score venues...a 13.5lb br rifle with a 3" wide forearm but without the other silly stock rules that never get checked.

Unlimited is for guns that somehow fail to fit in one of the other classes and/or for those that like to experiment a lot. Basically no restrictions other than 30 cal or less.

All of the classes require the same work ethic and there aren't any ranges that I know of that are gonna make winning easy on ya. Ya still have to out work them more than anything, IMO. UBR Modified class is a good example of not having to break the bank in order to compete.
 
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until a handicap system for shooters is successful that keeps the top shooters shooting against each other and new shooters or mid pack shooters competing against each other
This would induce "sandbagging" like in golf. What is your handicap? Oh, I'm a 12! (when they were really a 2) Thing about a true factory class is not to many "top" shooters are going to want to go there I wouldn't think. However I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken :rolleyes:
 
Most experienced shooters don’t guess. if they make a tuner adjustmen or a load adjustment they test it on the sighter
I go to the line every target with the load I’ve been shooting and one on either side of it. If I have time after I have finished the score card or group and I think that tune is going away. I test those loads I have with me for the next target. I thought that’s what everyone did
How many of each load?
 
Nice thing about shooting Palma......money doesnt factor into the game. Anyone with a half decent rifle, some proper burn rate powder, cheap Nosler 155s, can go out and hang with anyone, IF they can point the rifle in the same spot each time and read some wind. No equipment race there.
 
D Coors, and for the same reason I shoot various score matches, there are a lot available in less than a 2hour drive. If they would all go away I would go shoot groups by myself or shoot my different rifles against each other at score targets. Forget about factory class will drag them in. The only thing that will drag them in is an inner desire to compete.For many years I only competed in offhand matches. No butt hooks, no slings or palm rests....rifle did not mean a whole lot compared to the guy driving it. So this is a good thread but I notice as far as I can tell no input from any group but the benchrest group I am not sure what the means.
 
D Coors, and for the same reason I shoot various score matches, there are a lot available in less than a 2hour drive. If they would all go away I would go shoot groups by myself or shoot my different rifles against each other at score targets. Forget about factory class will drag them in. The only thing that will drag them in is an inner desire to compete.For many years I only competed in offhand matches. No butt hooks, no slings or palm rests....rifle did not mean a whole lot compared to the guy driving it. So this is a good thread but I notice as far as I can tell no input from any group but the benchrest group I am not sure what the means.
There's been good feedback from long range guys early on in this thread, Jeff. And as for factory class, again, there was a time locally when we had almost as many in factory as we did in custom class, in UBR...and then look at ARA. It's not that there is a lack of desire from new shooters as the proof is there. It's more about promoting a factory class. It's easy for me and you to get lured into your thought process but we are exactly the people that need to keep an open mind to promoting factory. I disagree with anyone that says br has no place for a good factory class because I've seen it work when promoted AND I see what ARA is currently doing with it. Don't close your mind to factory but instead, change that mindset and encourage it. Yes, it absolutely takes an inner desire but much less than to jump in with both feet and a $5-10k investment just to decide if you like it or not in custom class! As for match proximity...I agree and I'm blessed...both of us are...to be in an area where there are multiple br matches within 2-3 hours drive. I shoot score largely because I prefer it over group or rimfire but if there were more group matches nearby, I'd shoot that too. As is, I can shoot most weekends shooting the game I like best within a couple of hours so I don't have to worry about that much at this time. If those ranges were group only, damn right I'd shoot group though. Rimfire has a lot of good folks but is a different animal too, so is group. Doesn't mean I wouldn't shoot either. I have shot all three as well as a little long range.

This thread, while I don't mind it drifting, isn't about that though. It's about buying wins vs putting in the work to make it happen. I think the same rules apply for all BR shooting and that the wins come from practicing BEST! And yes, good practice costs money but that's where wins are bought! Just my two cents...again. Lol!

Factory is a different animal in that regard because we can't control the quality of the gun as much as with any custom. There!

I think you're missing the boat by dismissing factory class, both short and longer term.
 
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The problem with factory class no one wants a factory gun. Do this, add that, change this it never ends. This isn't factory it came from the factory custom shop so it is factory......it never ends? You can adjust the lousy trigger but now the gun fires closing the bolt or taking the safety off so let's allow an aftermarket trigger. I shot for 2 years in the IBS with a factory gun, almost. I put a Jewell trigger on it the second year. You can't shoot that in factory it cost more than I paid for my first used bench gun. Oh its a parts factory gun made from 4 other guns with with the best parts chosen from each and reassembled. You do the factory thing I will pass. Want to learn the game, come try out your favorite rifle, yes you'll be shooting against custom guns but if you like the came we will find you a used bench gun for less then today's high end "factory guns". New Sako 2689,00 on sale right now , it's not fair ,my Ruger American was 500.00. Look it up I just did, Accuflite Sports.
 
The problem with factory class no one wants a factory gun. Do this, add that, change this it never ends. This isn't factory it came from the factory custom shop so it is factory......it never ends? You can adjust the lousy trigger but now the gun fires closing the bolt or taking the safety off so let's allow an aftermarket trigger. I shot for 2 years in the IBS with a factory gun, almost. I put a Jewell trigger on it the second year. You can't shoot that in factory it cost more than I paid for my first used bench gun. Oh its a parts factory gun made from 4 other guns with with the best parts chosen from each and reassembled. You do the factory thing I will pass. Want to learn the game, come try out your favorite rifle, yes you'll be shooting against custom guns but if you like the came we will find you a used bench gun for less then today's high end "factory guns". New Sako 2689,00 on sale right now , it's not fair ,my Ruger American was 500.00. Look it up I just did, Accuflite Sports.
Jeff, you are wrong on just about all of that until you get to your last sentence or two. I won't argue that. Ubr does allow trigger change for the reasons you mentioned. Pm me if you want but let's get off the rant and back on subject or let it go. Nobody is forcing you to do anything so chill.
 
Jeff, you are wrong on just about all of that until you get to your last sentence or two. I won't argue that. Ubr does allow trigger change for the reasons you mentioned. Pm me if you want but let's get off the rant and back on subject or let it go. Nobody is forcing you to do anything so chill.
Fine but I was not relating this to the UBR at all. I am talking about all the complaints I hear from those who want a "Factory Class", except they don't. So back on course.....its easier for many to spend rather than work. Actually to get in the upper tier in this game I think it takes some of each. The big thing I think holds some shooters back is constantly changing equipment including cartridges.
 
In the almost 30 years I have been involved in this game I have seen one thing that I consider a major developement. It requires a little money and a little effort to learn. Yes bolts might be smoother and glass is available in higher power but the are just tweaking what's always been there. One thing...tuners.
 
Forgive the interruption but while y’all SR guys are arguing about your tuners some of us LR guys will be tuning brass and getting ready to do some fire forming in 2 ft of snow and sub zero temps…. And the young people y’all want to get involved in a factory class are over at the PRS event doing calculations their laptops, and shooting Steele at 1400 yards with the 6.5 MB so how do ya plan on getting a new crowd interested in a sport full of grouchy Gray tops ?
 

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