Do I really need a fancy rimfire rifle?

[1911nut]

I have been studying up on how top gunsmiths set the bullet jam and headspace in order to tune a barrel to a specific ammunition.
I have talked to several of the serious rimfire shooters at my home club seeing if they would be willing to take the barrel off of their rifle and let me see exactly what the headspace is, what the bullet jam is, and play with it, seeing if there is some magic to be found.
Most seem skeptical.
Maybe it’s because I am not a rim fire shooter. As with most things, I see it as nothing more than optimizing critical measurements..

I’m not a gunsmith, what you describe makes sense- I don’t know what or how to measure.

Then there’s tuning the rifle.
Here’s a past European champ shooting a tricked-out Bleiker,

 

[TRSR8]

I have been studying up on how top gunsmiths set the bullet jam and headspace in order to tune a barrel to a specific ammunition.
I have talked to several of the serious rimfire shooters at my home club seeing if they would be willing to take the barrel off of their rifle and let me see exactly what the headspace is, what the bullet jam is, and play with it, seeing if there is some magic to be found.
Most seem skeptical.
Maybe it’s because I am not a rim fire shooter. As with most things, I see it as nothing more than optimizing critical measurements..

Couple of modest factoids for you.
Headspace on majority of top flight RFBR. guns, .043”, .044”, take your pick.
You reference top smiths setting jam(engraving) for specific ammo.
First off, OAL, i.e. rim to ogive often varies enough to likely render that moot. Plenty of good RF ammo can have OAL variance of as much as .010”
Second, there are many, many, serious guns that win plenty, all chambered when ELEY ruled the roost, now shooting mostly Lapua, and winning plenty….same barrels.
Several set things up barrel specific….traditional, vs MI rifling…lot’s of configurations not seen in CF.
Some use a set stickout with success.
Some of the very best also vary their chamber depth a little at a time driven by how fast throat fouling builds….fairly important consideration.
Lastly a lot of proprietary finishing of a fresh chamber, unlike CF, your not shooting off any burrs with any reasonable time frame.
Plenty to ponder.
Several feel good machine skills directly translate to RF…….often don’t.

 

[TRSR8]

I’m not a gunsmith, what you describe makes sense- I don’t know what or how to measure.

Then there’s tuning the rifle.
Here’s a past European champ shooting a tricked-out Bleiker,

View attachment 1724999

Think he also shot a match hanging his wife's bloomers off the barrel.

 

[Fast14riot]

All I know about rimfire chambering is there is as much witchcraft and superstition as there is in making moonshine. Just as many variations, too.

I've been kind of leaning toward a surplus 40x to start with for a complete rifle and then upgrading barrel and stock as funds allow. The 700 platform appeals to me so I can shoot the same triggers and stocks more easily (can just borrow them off my backup LR gun to start) and learn the rimfire game a little better.

When I say I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of ammo testing, what I mean is I don't mind trying decent brands of ammo to find what shoots better I just dont want to test lot numbers and limit myself to buying a lot of and shooting only that lot number. It will be like my iron sight any/any gun, I have it and shoot it occasionally, but its not my primary focus in competitive shooting. F/open is my game and that takes precedence over everything.

 

[VA_XTC_Shooter]

Eliseo makes a nice 22 using a tikka action. My friend bought one and it shoots amazing.

I am seriously considering one of these. Primarily as a match rifle trainer, followed by PRS rimfire usage, and smallbore prone matches.
Any downsides for those uses?

 

[gravelyctry]

I am seriously considering one of these. Primarily as a match rifle trainer, followed by PRS rimfire usage, and smallbore prone matches.
Any downsides for those uses?

My friend loves his. Gary can rechamber the factory Tikka barrel for you, or chamber a new benchmark or Shilen barrel (I can’t remember which) if you prefer. The Tikka factory trigger is good, or there are several aftermarket options.

It feeds well, functions well, and shoots well. My friend absolutely loves his.

I have an Eliseo stocked Anschutz (AN1?) that’s pretty sweet also. The only thing that I might like different is mines a single shot only. The Tikka version can be magazine fed.

 

[IHMSA]

Absolutely no offense intended to you or your friend, but have you watched any of his videos detailing his builds? His method of setting headspace, etc?
CRINGE!

My DPG rifle was one of the first out of Kenny's shop that has the CZ action and barrel threaded versus his original slip fit configuration. Regardless of his methods for his builds. Action speaks louder than words. Below are target pics shot while tuning with an ATS tuner and SK Rifle Match. No cherry picking here. Just the three best settings. Ive had similar results with SK Rifle Match, Lapua Long Range as well as Eley Team and Eley Match. Rifle pic was before tuner installation.

 

[TRSR8]

All I know about rimfire chambering is there is as much witchcraft and superstition as there is in making moonshine. Just as many variations, too.

I've been kind of leaning toward a surplus 40x to start with for a complete rifle and then upgrading barrel and stock as funds allow. The 700 platform appeals to me so I can shoot the same triggers and stocks more easily (can just borrow them off my backup LR gun to start) and learn the rimfire game a little better.

When I say I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of ammo testing, what I mean is I don't mind trying decent brands of ammo to find what shoots better I just dont want to test lot numbers and limit myself to buying a lot of and shooting only that lot number. It will be like my iron sight any/any gun, I have it and shoot it occasionally, but its not my primary focus in competitive shooting. F/open is my game and that takes precedence over everything.

Entirely reasonable approach .
Unfortunately even with top brands, lot selection can usually make a significant difference, driven by your personal expectations and ability down the road.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I don't know about fancy, but the CZ457/Bartlein combo I have is one of my favorite rifles to shoot by far. It goes with me EVERY range trip and gets shot inbetween letting the centerfires cool. There's a lot of days I'll just take it to the range by itself for trigger/Bench practice and shoot 2-3 boxes of ammo also.

With SK long range, it'll make around 75% hits on a 20"x20" plate at 500 yards. At 50 yards it'll do 10 shots into a ragged hole. At 100 it'll do .75"-1 MOA consistently for 5 rounds. Just a super fun rifle that you don't have to spend time loading, or replacing expensive components for.

 

[Fire Dog]

Yeah, I'm not really interested in BR, more f/class style shooting since the local range has only 200y it would be nice to get some practice in. I really don't want to go down the ammo buying/testing rabbit hole that BR requires to be competitive, but for long range rimfire ammo that shoots 1/2moa would suffice for wind practice.

200 with a rimfire will definitely teach you about wind…!!
Even at a 100 the wind reading is becoming a significant factor.

 

[Jeff Porter]

How ironic I am too....

What can Agne Arms do for you ?

 

[DonW]

The water IS deep..

 

[Appalachian]

200 with a rimfire will definitely teach you about wind…!!
Even at a 100 the wind reading is becoming a significant factor.

It’s a significant factor at 50 yards.

 

[Heman]

What can Agne Arms do for you ?

Yep
Just having the recalibrate the 4th Axis and we are off and running.

 

[good2go4it]

Everybody needs a fancy 22 rimfire or two!!!!! The water is fine!!!

 

[GetReal]

Nothing better for reading wind than rimfire.

But translating that information from a lightweight, low b c, 40 gr projectile to a heavyweight, , high b c, center fire projectile is another whole skill in itself.

I had the high-end whizzbang rimfire rifle as an end to itself When I was competing 50 yard ARA bench rest.

I'm not sure the one skill set translates to the other.

 

[1Merlin]

Nothing better for reading wind than rimfire.

But translating that information from a lightweight, low b c, 40 gr projectile to a heavyweight, , high b c, center fire projectile is another whole skill in itself.

I had the high-end whizzbang rimfire rifle as an end to itself When I was competing 50 yard ARA bench rest.

I'm not sure the one skill set translates to the other.

I'm assuming that you do shoot HP in some form... So. Understanding that the amount of holdoff is certainly different - Do you find the angle of hold off for wind the same as with rimfire?

 

[GetReal]

I'm assuming that you do shoot HP in some form... So. Understanding that the amount of holdoff is certainly different - Do you find the angle of hold off for wind the same as with rimfire?

I attached the one I use for rimfire.

In myOpinion center fire mimics it.But I wouldn't say it's exact.

Admittedly , I have much more experience with rimfire than center fire.

 

[PWNolan]

I attached the one I use for rimfire.

In myOpinion center fire mimics it.But I wouldn't say it's exact.

Admittedly , I have much more experience with fire than center fire.

Charts like that are ok when you're first starting out to get a general idea of what you might see. As long as you understand that what actually happens can vary from day to day and at different ranges

 

[boltman13]

To answer your original question, no you don't. A quality factory rifle, say a Tika, Begara, or CZ will give you the feedback you seek. However, a highend Anschutz, Walther, or40X will certainly outperform the others day in and day out, and a custom even more so. Should you decide you enjoy Smallbore competition there are different classes in Benchrest. In Smallbore F-Class it's whatever rifle makes weight. Most top shooters are using full custom. I compete in Club Level Rim Fire Benchrest, F-Class, and Benchrest Silhouette oyt ot 200 yards on the rams. My comprtition rifles are a CZ 457 MTR in Factory, a Walther KKM in Match Grade and F-Class, and an Anschutz in Silhouette. Still the single smallest group I ever shot at 100 yards was with a factory CZ 457 Varmint and RWS R-50, which is unobtainable for over a year. Finding and keeping ammunition your rifle shoots well is a constant struggle, at least for me. Finally don't forget a high quality scope is required to do justice to your set up. Nightforce and March are commonly used.