I'm building a 22 rimfire trainer. I could use some advice.

[skeetlee]

I just ordered a stiller 2500xr action and I am wanting to build a rimfire trainer. I will be using a manners t3 but I don't really know what barrel or chamber reamer to buy

I'll be building this gun myself and this will also be my first rimfire build. I have always shot centerfire so I know very little about what other guys are using and winning with. What I need to know is-
What's a good reamer to use for a repeater action? Accuracy is always a must but I'm not sure a match chamber is they way to go? I truly just don't know?
What brand of barrels are winning? 2 groove, 3 groove, or 6 groove??? There again I don't know.
What ammo are the long range 22 rimfire guys shooting? I would assume the ammo type will dictate what chamber reamer to go with? I've read a little about guys using some type of flat nose Ann for long distant rimfire??
As you can see this will be a learning curve for myself. I've always wanted to do some rimfire work but I've just been to busy keeping up in my shop. Some buddies of mine are gonna build the same type of rifle as mine so if we succeed here, I might even hold a couple matches at my place. Should prove to be a nice challenge and a lot of fun
Any info is appreciated. Thanks lee

 

[MarkS]

I just ordered a stiller 2500xr action and I am wanting to build a rimfire trainer. I will be using a manners t3 but I don't really know what barrel or chamber reamer to buy

I'll be building this gun myself and this will also be my first rimfire build. I have always shot centerfire so I know very little about what other guys are using and winning with. What I need to know is-
What's a good reamer to use for a repeater action? Accuracy is always a must but I'm not sure a match chamber is they way to go? I truly just don't know?
What brand of barrels are winning? 2 groove, 3 groove, or 6 groove??? There again I don't know.
What ammo are the long range 22 rimfire guys shooting? I would assume the ammo type will dictate what chamber reamer to go with? I've read a little about guys using some type of flat nose Ann for long distant rimfire??
As you can see this will be a learning curve for myself. I've always wanted to do some rimfire work but I've just been to busy keeping up in my shop. Some buddies of mine are gonna build the same type of rifle as mine so if we succeed here, I might even hold a couple matches at my place. Should prove to be a nice challenge and a lot of fun
Any info is appreciated. Thanks lee

Lee,
I don't have info on reamer and groove #. But I do shoot long range rimfire. I have a Kidd Supergrade and CZ Varmint for factory class. As far as ammo I shoot mid price range ammo. CCI SV on the low end. SK + and Match, Wolf MT and Extra, Eley Target and Club, run $ 6 to $9 per 50. Lapua Center X at $10 / 50 shoots the best in my guns. The flat nose ammo is Eley match and Tennex at $18 to $20 per / 50. You will have to just try some of each to see what your gun likes, that is the nature of beast, of shooting a rimfire. The $ 6 to $10 range ammo can shoot very well. Just stay away from bulk ammo, shoot SV ammo and you will be ok.
What type matches are you going to shoot?

Mark Schronce

 

[skeetlee]

Mark
Not sure yet but I am thinking about shooting small steel animal targets out to 250. I have the range and I wouldn't mind hosting a couple a year. Just depends on how well I can sell it in my area.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

Hi Lee,

Since you bought the action from Jerry, I'd suggest you give him a call because he'll know far more on the subject of chambering it properly to work reliably as a repeater than you'll find on an internet forum.
He's also well versed on the most promising leade angles and chambering dimensions that'll work best within the limitations imposed by using a repeater.
As far as ballistics, you'll want to use only sub-sonic ammo and the slower it is, the less it will drift in the wind due to the higher drag coefficients inherent with working in the transonic range of velocities. That's just the opposite of jacketed supersonic projectiles.

Ammo choices are slim regarding the manufacturers of true match ammo and your only choices are Eley (Match & Tenex), Lapua (Center X & Midas +), or RWS (R50 & R100).

One other item you should keep in mind is that 22 rimfire is subject to a non-linear increase in precision with increased distance and that's also different from centerfire.
By that I mean you won't see group averages of 0.5 MOA at 50 yds translate to group averages of 1 MOA at 100 yds.

My latest data with about 300 to 400 rds shot thru electronic targets at 50 and 100 tracking the same projectiles has a current running ratio of 2.66. Meaning you can expect 0.25" averages at 50 growing to 0.665" averages at 100, and not the 0.500" average you'd expect.

On internet forums you'll see the ratio as high as 3 to 1 or 4 to 1, but that's only because they don't have a ballistic tunnel and are subject to the horrendous increases in missed wind calls when trying to push these little pills to 100 yds and beyond. Having my own testing facility/ballistic tunnel allows me to analyze the data on over 50,000 rds and get a pretty good handle on both ballistics and precision.

Hope this helps some because I'm an admirer of your posts on several different forums,

Landy

 

[savagedasher]

First thing is to install a turner on it . RF was The first to find ou they work . Larry

 

[flatlander]

My first 22RF rifle build was also on a Stiller 2500XR. In my case, I'd ordered a Krieger 22RF blank in sendero contour with the intent of re-barreling one of my CMP 40X single shot rifles that had a barrel in poor condition. I'd also asked German Salazar for advice on a reamer, and bought an Ultimate EPS from PTG based on his recommendation, so had those two main decisions out of the way several years prior to the decision to build a repeater as a high-level trainer.

I got the idea for the build from reading an advertisement from Euro Optic detailing a similar rifle built around the 2500XR, with a Bartlein hvy Palma & Manners Elite shell stocks. I really didn't look more deeply into reamer design, since I already had the PTG, nor did I consider another barrel. It turned out just fine, with very reliable feeding, extraction, and ejection, along with good accuracy. The Ultimate EPS reamer has s slight radius at the edge, where the case body transitions to the rim, and that's sufficient to allow smooth feeding. I didn't do any additional metal work to facilitate feeding, nor did I feel the need to do so.

I recently sold this rifle to a friend & customer who wanted something with more heft & accuracy potential for competing in a club's 22RF Precision Rifle matches. The main reason I let it go was because I've got two CMP Rem 40X rifles to convert into repeaters that use a unique magazine that's the same size & shape as an AICS 10rd 308 mag, so will work with virtually any DBM designed for the AICS mags. This makes for quick & easy reloads. I barreled the first of these actions with a 3-groove Benchmark, and am doing both a Lilja titebore & another Krieger for the 2nd so that I can test them both in the same rifle. Good luck with your project - it'll present you with chances to figure out such things as how to cut extractor grooves & etc.

 

[MarkS]

Lee,
I shoot a match in Saltville, VA. We shoot rimfire Sil. at 2 times the distance. Chickens at 80 yds, Pigs at 120 yds, Turkeys at 175 yds. Rams at 200 yds. I want to get to this match. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/may-longrange-rimfire-match.3926542/ looks like fun.

Mark

 

[skeetlee]

Cutting extractor groove is basic machine operation. I do it for winchesters quite often
I may also go with a lilja barrel. I've read good things about them shilen as well.
I've been looking at the mcree chassis as they make one just for this action. The plan is coming together. Thanks for the reply. Lee

 

[jbell]

Pay very close attention to the specs for the extractor groves with the 2500XR. Again Jerry would be a great place to start. He has always been very helpful to me with my 2500XR. He is also a self proclaimed rimfire nut, so listen to what he has to say about chambering. As far as barrels I really like Benchmark and Shilen Ratchet, but there are plenty of good ones out there.

 

[Boyd L.]

Does the match you're planning to compete in require the gun to be able to be made safe by emptying the chamber by extraction of an unfired round? I've had a number of rifles with chambers so tight that they will simply not extract a live, fully chambered round. All the smallbore silhouette match directors I've known would allow me to fire downrange to make the gun "safe", but I wouldn't want to be DQ'ed or told to remove an "unsafe" rifle from the line. Pick your chamber with care. I'll have to dig out the PTG chamber reamer I bought a couple of years ago in an attempt to get tight dimensions and effective extraction.

 

[skeetlee]

thankd gentlemen i appreciate the info. i made a call to stiller today but everyone was out. The lady that was answering the phones had her plate full, so it seemed. Im in no huge rush. I love to read and pick other peoples brain about this stuff. SO again, i really appreciate the info.. Lee

 

[johnfred1965]

I haven't the money for these kinds of decisions, but I would have recommended the Stiller if you hadn't already bought it. After talking to them, I would say give Dan Lilja a call and get his opinion as well. His 22lr barrels have won a lot of medals. Sounds like you are heading in that direction anyway, so good luck with your new project.

 

[CATMAN]

Go with a coned breech,don't worry about extractor groves. Catman

 

[DirtRacer151]

How long is it taking from the time you place the order until receiving your 2500?

 

[flatlander]

Last time I spoke with Russ at Stiller - a little over a month ago, IIRC - he said they still had a few of the 2500XR repeaters in stock.

As far as a reverse coned breech to avoid cutting extractor grooves - I have my doubts that's going to work well for a repeater. Would like to hear from anyone who's tried it & gotten it to work with a mag fed repeater.

I followed Stiller's drawing from their website very closely when cutting the extractor grooves for the Krieger I used on my 2500XR, and had zero extraction/ejection issues with it when finished.

Used Mike Bush's drawing (specific to his magazine design for his repeater conversion) for the grooves on a Benchmark bbl for my 722-style 40X repeater. Did a Lilja tite-bore blank for my 40XB, and got along fine with it, after ordering a .215" pilot bushing for the EPS reamer. The most recent Krieger (also for a 40XB) required a .2164" pilot bushing, while a .217" bushing fit the one I used on the Stiller.