Custom FL Dies - What company?

[dkhunt14]

Is that a Lee collet die?

If so, I'm trying to avoid bumping shoulders in one step, and sizing the neck in another. I could pretty much do that now with my current whidden FL die, and mandrel it back up (or use pin gauges).

I shoot a lot, and I'm also very lazy.

I'm really looking for a 1-step sizing process that gives me .001 tension, .002 bump, zero run out, and hits those numbers every time. That's not asking too much is it?

That's hard to do. Every firing and sizing cycle makes the brass harder. Therefore the tension and amount of bump changes. You might get close if you have a good annealer and annual every time. Matt

 

[MikeMcCasland]

That's hard to do. Every firing and sizing cycle makes the brass harder. Therefore the tension and amount of bump changes. You might get close if you have a good annealer and annual every time. Matt

AMP; every firing.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I believe you. I just don't understand..I guess the whiddens don't allow as much side-to-side play with the bushing?

Here's where I'm hung up....If the die is bored out to .5" in the bushing area (hypothetical numbers), and the bushings are .495 OD, then how does the die affect neck concentricity.

Its not side to side play its the squareness of how it sits there. It needs to be able to float but it can float less if the die is straight.

 

[TrxR]

Whidden or harrels for 30br?

 

[jimmymac]

Whidden or harrels for 30br?

Probably depends on the reamer. The reamer my gunsmith uses is a great fit for a Harrell's. He did it this way on purpose to make buying sizing dies easy. My results have been great. Minimal sizing. Brass is holding up good. Accuracy is awesome.

I had originally planned on buying another Whidden when I got this 30BR but the Harrell's is working perfectly for my chamber. No need for me to go Whidden at this point. Since then, I've had my gunsmith order me a reamer to match his.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Harrell's will do a 30 BRA dies as well.

 

[jimmymac]

Harrell's will do a 30 BRA dies as well.

How's that chambering working out for guys Alex? Thanks. Don't want to derail this thread too much, but this interests me as a newer score shooter.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Too soon to say much. Would need to get one into the hands of a top score shooter. 2 reasons I did it, 40 degree shoulder, I hate trimming brass, and Mr. Robinett told me he wished the 30br held one more grain of powder.

 

[F Class John]

I’ll just throw this out there but I’m a huge fan of. Newlon custom dies. They come as a blank and you have your gunsmith chamber them. Great dies and great company. The seating die can even be ordered with a Mitotoyo micrometer on it. I’ve had plenty of Wilson and they’re great does too but for true custom I’m sold on the Newlon dies.

 

[avidflyer]

I’ll just throw this out there but I’m a huge fan of. Newlon custom dies. They come as a blank and you have your gunsmith chamber them. Great dies and great company. The seating die can even be ordered with a Mitotoyo micrometer on it. I’ve had plenty of Wilson and they’re great does too but for true custom I’m sold on the Newlon dies.

No comparison....made one for my 308 great seater

 

[Sandstorm]

Anyone use Neil Jones products.? or have any experience with his work.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

There's nothing mystical about a die. They have a very simple job to do and if it's made to the right size relative to the chamber/fired brass, it should do that job well.
Also, there's nothing wrong with going with a custom die but it makes more sense to me to have the chamber reamer ground to work with off the shelf type s bushing dies whenever possible.

Don't over think this. I can very much appreciate nice machining but that's not the issue here. The only real concern is the die is straight, after heat treat and that it reduces the case size a very specific amount..and again, this can change during heat treat with some materials.

I think the op answered his own question in regard to his runout troubles when he said that he was reducing neck diameter by .006.

Again, nothing against custom dies or the makers. Hell, I am a former die maker. It's just an unnecessary expense when you can almost always use a std type s die and get the same results, if your reamer is properly thought out and made to work with said die.
Custom dies have their place but imo, not so much, when you can control chamber dimensions so they yield brass that is properly sized with a standard die.
This isn't rocket surgery.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

There's nothing mystical about a die. They have a very simple job to do and if it's made to the right size relative to the chamber/fired brass, it should do that job well.
Also, there's nothing wrong with going with a custom die but it makes more sense to me to have the chamber reamer ground to work with off the shelf type s bushing dies whenever possible.

Don't over think this. I can very much appreciate nice machining but that's not the issue here. The only real concern is the die is straight, after heat treat and that it reduces the case size a very specific amount..and again, this can change during heat treat with some materials.

I think the op answered his own question in regard to his runout troubles when he said that he was reducing neck diameter by .006.

Again, nothing against custom dies or the makers. Hell, I am a former die maker. It's just an unnecessary expense when you can almost always use a std type s die and get the same results, if your reamer is properly thought out and made to work with said die.
Custom dies have their place but imo, not so much, when you can control chamber dimensions so they yield brass that is properly sized with a standard die.
This isn't rocket surgery.

I agree with everything you're saying. That said, I think you ideally want about .003-.004 neck clearance in a .308...at least that's what I see a lot of people running.

If you don't want to turn Lapua palma brass, that's going to put you at a .341-.342 neck, and you'll need to be sizing down with a .335 or .336 bushing to hit .001" interference fit....so it's somewhat unavoidable... You're going to be sizing that neck down .005-.006 regardless.

I could be missing something though...probably am. It may not be rocket surgery, but I make Forrest Gump look like Albert Einstein.

 

[Jdne5b]

Did using a bushing die+mandrel increase your concentricity over just using a bushing die?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

It may be worth doing it in two steps, sizing the necks down .002-.003 at a time. I really don't know how that will work but I don't think a floating bushing is your problem. They simply work too well in too many instances. IME and what you have described, runout usually happens during sizing, not seating, so that's where I'd focus. I know one guy that runs a straight piece of brass into the busing by raising the ram and then locks the bushing tightly solid. He feels like it helps but I'm skeptical of the benefits. But it would make it act like a one piece die, fwiw.

 

[dave@aDave]

Anyone use Neil Jones products.? or have any experience with his work.

I really like these. Work like a charm. I sent him 20 pieces of brass for samples. He made me an extra shoulder /neck insert that was 0.001 different size for different brass.
At this time of year Mr. Jones is probably in Florida. He returns in the Spring.
Give him a call, write a letter, or send an email. If you call him he will ask questions and take the time to answer questions. Place your order. Sit back and wait.
https://www.neiljones.com

 

[Sandstorm]

Thanks for the info dave@aDave

 

[memilanuk]

@MikeMcCasland I have used Redding Type S F/L bushing dies for a long time in a number of different calibers, and they're still my default 'go-to' option for the most part. I'm comfortable with them and the results they give me.

Mainly for the sake of trying something different, I switched my .308 FTR ammo to a honed F/L die this past season. My match brass is typically turned to 0.014" necks, and I typically run a .333 or .334 bushing, followed by running over an expander mandrel. Between annealing, the bushing die, and the mandrel, the necks come out at 0.305" ( .305- pin gauge slips in with a little friction, .3055 doesn't go in at all). So I sent a Forster 'National Match' F/L die in to get the neck honed to 0.333".

It seems to work pretty much exactly the same as the bushing die I was using... Which I guess is a good thing

The only real difference I've noticed is that the brass which had been thru 4-5 cycles with the bushing die... apparently has a teensy little donut at the base of the neck, as my 0.305- pin gauge goes down and stops, whereas a 0.3045 pin will slip in all the way. Whether that would have developed anyway, or if it's a consequence of the bushing die... dunno. It's down far enough relative to the bearing surface of a 200.20X bullet that it's mostly academic at this point.

HTH,

Monte

 

[natdscott]

Forsters most custom handmade offering wont be half as good as an off the shelf whidden. Whidden is the only one that will use your print or your 3x fired brass to make a perfect die- not just one that will size enough. The best thing is getting a resize reamer made and having your gunsmith ream a newlon blank and get it hardened but thats serious dinero

Neil Jones?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Neil Jones?

If he still does it like last time i got one it was with a resize reamer i thought