Custom FL Dies - What company?

[memilanuk]

@MikeMcCasland I have used Redding Type S F/L bushing dies for a long time in a number of different calibers, and they're still my default 'go-to' option for the most part. I'm comfortable with them and the results they give me.

Mainly for the sake of trying something different, I switched my .308 FTR ammo to a honed F/L die this past season. My match brass is typically turned to 0.014" necks, and I typically run a .333 or .334 bushing, followed by running over an expander mandrel. Between annealing, the bushing die, and the mandrel, the necks come out at 0.305" ( .305- pin gauge slips in with a little friction, .3055 doesn't go in at all). So I sent a Forster 'National Match' F/L die in to get the neck honed to 0.333".

It seems to work pretty much exactly the same as the bushing die I was using... Which I guess is a good thing

The only real difference I've noticed is that the brass which had been thru 4-5 cycles with the bushing die... apparently has a teensy little donut at the base of the neck, as my 0.305- pin gauge goes down and stops, whereas a 0.3045 pin will slip in all the way. Whether that would have developed anyway, or if it's a consequence of the bushing die... dunno. It's down far enough relative to the bearing surface of a 200.20X bullet that it's mostly academic at this point.

HTH,

Monte

 

[natdscott]

Forsters most custom handmade offering wont be half as good as an off the shelf whidden. Whidden is the only one that will use your print or your 3x fired brass to make a perfect die- not just one that will size enough. The best thing is getting a resize reamer made and having your gunsmith ream a newlon blank and get it hardened but thats serious dinero

Neil Jones?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Neil Jones?

If he still does it like last time i got one it was with a resize reamer i thought

 

[dave@aDave]

Neil Jones?

Neil Jones makes your dies from measuring your brass that has been fired 3 times. You would have to ask him about making dies from a reamer.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

@MikeMcCasland I have used Redding Type S F/L bushing dies for a long time in a number of different calibers, and they're still my default 'go-to' option for the most part. I'm comfortable with them and the results they give me.

Mainly for the sake of trying something different, I switched my .308 FTR ammo to a honed F/L die this past season. My match brass is typically turned to 0.014" necks, and I typically run a .333 or .334 bushing, followed by running over an expander mandrel. Between annealing, the bushing die, and the mandrel, the necks come out at 0.305" ( .305- pin gauge slips in with a little friction, .3055 doesn't go in at all). So I sent a Forster 'National Match' F/L die in to get the neck honed to 0.333".

It seems to work pretty much exactly the same as the bushing die I was using... Which I guess is a good thing

The only real difference I've noticed is that the brass which had been thru 4-5 cycles with the bushing die... apparently has a teensy little donut at the base of the neck, as my 0.305- pin gauge goes down and stops, whereas a 0.3045 pin will slip in all the way. Whether that would have developed anyway, or if it's a consequence of the bushing die... dunno. It's down far enough relative to the bearing surface of a 200.20X bullet that it's mostly academic at this point.

HTH,

Monte

Monte,

Appreciate the post, as always. I agree on the type-s, I've run them in a lot of things and they generally work well for me, however I'm not terribly thrilled with mine in .308.

That's unfortunate about your Forster, I'd kind of hoped to hear it had shown some marked improvement.

My plan at this point is to do two things:
1.) Replace my bushing with a Whidden (set to arrive today), and resetup the die.
2.) Send off some brass, and get a .336 Whidden FL die made, as well as a custom bushing FL sizer.

Brass comes out of the gun damn near perfect (as perfect as you can get unturned brass to read). That leads me to believe I either have a die that is somehow 'cockeyed" slightly in the press, a die that's not manufactured straight, or maybe a bushing out of round.

Knowing how much I'm sizing down, I can accept some run-out. Across a batch of 100 rounds, even my best performing dies yield loaded rounds with bullet ogive TIR somewhere around .0005-.0015. I'm totally cool with that kind of result. I'm just trying to get away from .002-.003 with every 5th-6th one being .006 TIR.

Either way, a re-configured die, or new dies should fix it.

I'll report back on results once I get it all setup.

 

[KenOath]

Gents,

I think I'm in the market for some custom dies and want some opinions.

I'll start with some background. I've had .308s in the past, however I'm just starting to dip my toes into the 'serious end' of FTR. Most recently I had a reamer made by JGS, and a couple of barrels chambered from it; I've got 2-4 firings on some palma brass from both barrels, and don't have any extraction issues etc (i.e. my reamer design wasn't complete crap, and was cut correctly).

In the past (with this and other .308s) I've alternated between using expanderless FL bushing dies, expanderless FL dies/mandreling up, and FL dies with adjustable expanders. I haven't been 100% satisfied with any option from a concentricity/consistency perspective. .

FWIW - I'm using a .342nk, and using a .336 bushing to give me .001" tension.

It feels like at this point the natural progression is to go with a custom FL die.

That said, it looks like Forster and Whidden are the only two die companies that really promote this as a service. I know Warner Tool does it, but I'm not interested in a $600 FL die that I have to shim to adjust shoulder bump.

Is there anyone I'm missing?

Of those, anyone have any preference over the other?

Unless there's a bunch of anti-Forster sentiment, I think I could get two forsters for the price of a single Widden, and have them honed ~.001 apart to basically use like you would a bushing die (except without run-out).

Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

The Wilson FL Bushing dies are machined very nicely and size smooth as butter. Fit a PMA micro adjuster to it makes It even more of a pleasure to use..Not a custom die but I’m getting perfect sizing at base and shoulder on my 284..

 

[urbanrifleman]

The Wilson FL Bushing dies are machined very nicely and size smooth as butter. Fit a PMA micro adjuster to it makes It even more of a pleasure to use..Not a custom die but I’m getting perfect sizing at base and shoulder on my 284..

Yah that Wilson might have to be my next purchase. I trust Wilson. Others not so much.

 

[memilanuk]

@MikeMcCasland are you floating your dies in the press?

 

[MikeMcCasland]

@MikeMcCasland are you floating your dies in the press?

No. Put in a .010 Redding shell holder.
Raise ram
Tighten die down until very slight contact
Lower ram, tighten die additional ~1/32nd of a turn
Raise ram
Tighten lock ring
Adjust shell holders until desired bump is achieved.
Record shell holder & bump on ammo box.
Shoot Xs

 

[natdscott]

Neil Jones makes your dies from measuring your brass that has been fired 3 times. You would have to ask him about making dies from a reamer.

Have some.

 

[SealT5]

I just received a couple Wilson FL dies today for my dasher and 7Saum. I can not describe how impressed I am with them. Chamber is highly polished and sizes like butter. Functionally I’ve never had an issue with Redding S dies but each and everyone has a poor chamber finish. I highly recommend the wilsons

Joe S

Yah that Wilson might have to be my next purchase. I trust Wilson. Others not so much.

 

[Big Mc]

Gents,

I think I'm in the market for some custom dies and want some opinions.

I'll start with some background. I've had .308s in the past, however I'm just starting to dip my toes into the 'serious end' of FTR. Most recently I had a reamer made by JGS, and a couple of barrels chambered from it; I've got 2-4 firings on some palma brass from both barrels, and don't have any extraction issues etc (i.e. my reamer design wasn't complete crap, and was cut correctly).

In the past (with this and other .308s) I've alternated between using expanderless FL bushing dies, expanderless FL dies/mandreling up, and FL dies with adjustable expanders. I haven't been 100% satisfied with any option from a concentricity/consistency perspective. .

FWIW - I'm using a .342nk, and using a .336 bushing to give me .001" tension.

It feels like at this point the natural progression is to go with a custom FL die.

That said, it looks like Forster and Whidden are the only two die companies that really promote this as a service. I know Warner Tool does it, but I'm not interested in a $600 FL die that I have to shim to adjust shoulder bump.

Is there anyone I'm missing?

Of those, anyone have any preference over the other?

Unless there's a bunch of anti-Forster sentiment, I think I could get two forsters for the price of a single Widden, and have them honed ~.001 apart to basically use like you would a bushing die (except without run-out).

Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Whidden never had a problem. Grate people to work with

 

[moondog]

I got a full length bushing sizer from Wilson last year for a 7Saum. Very nice die with one of the best finishes ever. Makes great brass.
I wish they did customs.

 

[moondog]

Per Boyds experience, I sent Hornady brass, and a print to have a sizing Die made for a 6.5x55 GWI yesterday. We will see.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Update for any lurkers following. I'd received my Whidden bushings on Friday and I shot a match today, so I've got some brass to play with.

The Whidden bushings are giving better numbers on average, however still getting the occasional piece that shows .005 TIR after sizing.

Interestingly, the Whidden bushings also seem to size the neck fully (even when setup to float). If not 100%, it's visibly more than the Redding bushings do.

I ran all my fired brass through the AMP in my excitement to try the bushings out, so I'll probably fire 3 pieces of brass out of this rifle tomorrow just to send those off for the custom dies.
.

 

[D-4297]

Mike ; I got a Whidden Custom F/L Bushing Die for my .308 TR and couldn't be happier . The only time I get any T.I.R. run-out is if I have a piece of brass that has a small neck burr on the outside of the neck that I missed when deburring .

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Posting another update for the benefit of those who might come across this in a search years later.

So I did a couple of things. First, I sent some fired brass off to get some custom dies made; I really like this reamer (.180fb / .342nk / 1deg30) and anticipate having a bunch of barrels made off it in the coming years.

Second, I also got proactively impatient at the 11-14 week wait, and ordered a standard Whidden 308 Win bushing die, and I used it for the first time today.

I don't fully understand how it's delivering better results, but it is. Runout appears to be reduced ~30-40% using the exact same Whidden bushing I posted about on 16-Nov, only this time in a Whidden die. As best I can figure, the nut that sits below the stem assembly (the nut bushing backs up to) is machined flatter, and/or itself floats better within the Whidden.

Either way, out of the 40 cases I've done so far, nothing is reading higher than .003 TIR....and I'm content with that. Better numbers than I was getting out of the Type S with either Redding or Whidden bushings.

That probably means the money will be somewhat wasted on a custom die, but whatever...it'll have custom in the name, and that makes me feel special.

Thanks again for the help guys.

 

[mike06]

Posting another update for the benefit of those who might come across this in a search years later.

So I did a couple of things. First, I sent some fired brass off to get some custom dies made; I really like this reamer (.180fb / .342nk / 1deg30) and anticipate having a bunch of barrels made off it in the coming years.

Second, I also got proactively impatient at the 11-14 week wait, and ordered a standard Whidden 308 Win bushing die, and I used it for the first time today.

I don't fully understand how it's delivering better results, but it is. Runout appears to be reduced ~30-40% using the exact same Whidden bushing I posted about on 16-Nov, only this time in a Whidden die. As best I can figure, the nut that sits below the stem assembly (the nut bushing backs up to) is machined flatter, and/or itself floats better within the Whidden.

Either way, out of the 40 cases I've done so far, nothing is reading higher than .003 TIR....and I'm content with that. Better numbers than I was getting out of the Type S with either Redding or Whidden bushings.

That probably means the money will be somewhat wasted on a custom die, but whatever...it'll have custom in the name, and that makes me feel special.

Thanks again for the help guys.

Mike I just got that same 308 FL Bushing Die with Whidden Bushings today. How much are you letting the bushing float?

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Mike I just got that same 308 FL Bushing Die with Whidden Bushings today. How much are you letting the bushing float?

I played with it on my concentricity gauge until they were coming out as straight as I could get them. About 1/16th a turn off if I had to guess.

 

[mike06]

I played with it on my concentricity gauge until they were coming out as straight as I could get them. About 1/16th a turn off if I had to guess.

I also have cases with up to .005 TIR after sizing. I have tried every combination of Redding which here is what I have. Redding Type S FL Bushing Die, Redding Body Die, Redding Micrometer Bushing Neck Die, Forester Bushing Bump Die and now the Whidden FL Bushing Die. The Redding Type S was putting in more run out than anything. Most of my fired cases would have .002 or less run out before resizing. I have a 21st century concentricity gauge to check cases with. I do anneal also. I hope I can get the Whidden to work out very good machine work on the die and bushings. Thanks