Custom actions.... are they worth the $$$$?

[Kiwi Greg]

A discerning client commented to me the other week "Everything feels like sludge after using a Defiance"

Can't argue with that

 

[270WinDude]

I think some good arguments are made here. My favorite comments coming from Alex and Carlsbad. One thing I'd point out is that the bullet and brass are firmly inside the barrels chamber with the action to their rear. I still need to research material differences if any between a standard 700 and an expensive custom. I suspect material plays a part due to harmonics. Bolt face plays a part. Firing pin. Of coarse recoil lugs. If I were competing, of coarse the trajectory of that sport almost insists you go with a custom, the culture and logic support it. I'm just not convinced that the top shooters couldn't do just as well with a "good" 700 action attached to they're ridiculously accurate guns. p.s. I misspelled their on purpose; I'm in the mood to troll apparently. Also I still drool over Kelby and BAT actions quite often.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Context matters here. If we are talking competition theres a big difference within customs alone. Consistent ignition and energy are as important if not more than a good bedding job or chamber job. The action plays as much as a role in accuracy as the barrel once you get to high level competition. If you really want the most accurate rifle possible you need to have the action gone through.

 

[270WinDude]

Consistent ignition and energy

I missed that part in my comment. I don't understand it that well which is probably why I forgot to mention it. I've seen you mention it on threads before and keep meaning to research how the action plays a role there outside of firing pin.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You wont find much online. The guys that do it keep it to themselves. Its very common in short range, not as much in long range even though its every bit as important. I think alot of people just assume things were condition related rather than rifle related.

 

[Puzzaz01]

I can tell you from personal experience, I shot a lot of custom 700's that I have built and my groups at 600 were 2-2 1/2", then Greg Taylor talked me into trying a better action. I duplicated the same build but with the Borden BRMXD action and maybe it's coincidental but now I'm keeping them in the 1.7" size on a regular basis. Not great but it's a lot better.

Thanks
Darrin

 

[geo.ulrich]

Context matters here. If we are talking competition theres a big difference within customs alone. Consistent ignition and energy are as important if not more than a good bedding job or chamber job. The action plays as much as a role in accuracy as the barrel once to get to high level competition. If you really want the most accurate rifle possible you need to have the action gone through.

Alex, Just add to what you've said. All need to be gone through for top accuracy. After that the three b's and scope rule

 

[Nature Boy]

Tighter tolerances and better customer service are the two things that pop to mind that make custom actions worth it.

The latter alone is almost enough to justify it.

Case in point. Installing lower rings on my Panda action caused an interference with the bolt handle and scope.

Called Kelbly’s on Monday morning and spoke to Ian. Shipped bolt to him Monday afternoon. Got it back Thursday afternoon. Tried to pay him but he wouldn’t take it.

Think you’d get that from Remington?

 

[fatheeler]

absolutely one of the best discussions I have read here, my .02 talk to a good smith and take his advice

 

[alinwa]

I've had the luxury over the years of paying the money and deciding this question for myself, on my own terms......hands-on, home-range, no guessing. I own a little construction company and have an entertainment budget, I "do guns" (in lieu of hunting and fishing the last few yrs!) instead of traveling or drinking....

I can shoot 24-7 at home and sometimes do. I shoot when I want. WHENEVER I want, no neighbors.

I don't throw shots out.

EVERY ROUND FIRED through any setup is documented. Forever.

I've had 7 Rem700's "gone through" or "blueprinted" or "align-bored and ported and polished"....whatever you want to call it. I even have a 700 done by Jim Borden hisself, hands-on with the Borden Bumps and all. And in the last ten yrs, doing my own work I've done 700's, Savages and even some Tikkas and Weatherby's...... I've got a Weatherby/Rem 700/Sav 110 test running right now, head-to-head.


And I've got Borden's, Bat's, Stiller's, Nesika,' Surgeon's, Kelbly's, and Defiance..... and built/tested (I don't sell guns without testing and selling with a load workup) more.

I spent 15yrs of my life and tens of thousands of dollars trying to prove that non-BR specific guns, chamberings and calibers could "shot as well as BR guns" that "it's the indian, not the arrow"

And MANY thousands of dollars later my beliefs have changed.

It's the arrow.

I OWN rifles that you can set on the bench, tie a kitten to the trigger and let it mumble about the bench til it falls off..... do this 5 times and the group will be smaller than a pencil eraser.

F'real.

I just can't in good faith advocate factory actions for anyone interested in seeing what a really accurate rifle can do. A truly accurate rifle is like being able to reach out with a Sharpie and blacken that dot...... I have guns where, on a good day the hole gets SMALLER in the scope as you shoot.

And that ain't a Creedmoor joke.


Sorry about the rant, I just read thru this thread and felt compelled cuz

BTDTGTTS


Custom...Custom...CUSTOM...... and also WHO DOES THE WORK is huge.....Huge......'YUGE! I

can't say enough about the gunsmith being better/more important than the components. If anyone reading this is a competitive racer in any sport they may understand. 50 guys can bolt together a car from parts in the JC Whitney catalog

and one will win.



OPINIONBY





al

 

[mr45man]

What Al said 100%.
And the chamber is a Yuge factor.
Borrowing from Al "Yuge"

 

[284winner]

Like most of the world I have several Rem. 700 action rifles and I have had good luck with them. About 7 years ago I made my first custom rifle with a Stiller TAC300 action and I love it... But is it worth the extra $650??

I may need to get the action trued but I get the same accuracy and longevity out of the factory 700's and most all these custom actions (Stiller, Surgeon, Defiance) are based off the 700 anyway. Right????

What say you guys?

Depends on what you are planning on doing with that action. Resale after a build, it's going to have much more value than a factory 700 action even after all the trueing of the 700. Competition it will "probably" give you the accuracy edge. That i say with a little reluctance but since I don't compete, I must say it's in theory and print looking at all the custom actions winning all the matches. I can't say they perform any better for me. Owning a Pierce and Shilen action, they both perform about on par with my trued 700s. As hunting actions, they seem about equal. This question IS extremely controversial. Been beat up over and over on this forum. I wish I did compete to be able to address this better for my own piece of mind. I have to believe the guys using customs and having used trued factories and saying custom all the way.

 

[alinwa]

Depends on what you are planning on doing with that action. Resale after a build, it's going to have much more value than a factory 700 action even after all the trueing of the 700. Competition it will "probably" give you the accuracy edge. That i say with a little reluctance but since I don't compete, I must say it's in theory and print looking at all the custom actions winning all the matches. I can't say they perform any better for me. Owning a Pierce and Shilen action, they both perform about on par with my trued 700s. As hunting actions, they seem about equal. This question IS extremely controversial. Been beat up over and over on this forum. I wish I did compete to be able to address this better for my own piece of mind. I have to believe the guys using customs and having used trued factories and saying custom all the way.

Well, it ain't JUST the action.......it's dern easy to make a custom suck just as much as factory

 

[284winner]

No but since the question is about the action, that's what my response was too. Obviously other components are as or more important as is the gunsmithing. Actions are just one factor as a fine barrel is another. None mean a thing without a good Smith to machine and combine the two.

Well, it ain't JUST the action.......it's dern easy to make a custom suck just as much as factory

 

[geo.ulrich]

This whole thread seems to have become skewed. Is it about custom vs. factory actions which being best or holding resale value? Other than bolt l/r choice, loading port l/r choice and ejector l/r or none I don't see the difference other than resale. If you have to spend an hour or hours straightening a mess it doesn't really matter who made it. I have worked on a ton of both and it really makes no difference straight is straight when your done. I do have a problem paying 1300-1600 for a "custom" action that needs to be gone through. which by the way there are not really any custom actions just limited production made in smaller lots than factories...

 

[Earnhardt]

Ok, so what would guys say is the most reasonably priced custom action, that still has the reputation of reliability as the most expensive actions?
ie...300 RUM or 338 Edge
Thanks

 

[22DASHER]

Ok, so what would guys say is the most reasonably priced custom action, that still has the reputation of reliability as the most expensive actions?
ie...300 RUM or 338 Edge
Thanks

Borden.

 

[284winner]

Ok, so what would guys say is the most reasonably priced custom action, that still has the reputation of reliability as the most expensive actions?
ie...300 RUM or 338 Edge
Thanks

I will say a Pierce action. I do own one and paid 800.00 new. It was one of John's first actions built. I'd put it up against any other Remington footprint action available in it's class. Today that action may be 900-1000.00 but I believe priced fair. It's really no different in anyway than any of my blueprinted Rem 700s but it is not a Remington. Today he builds a titanium model that would be my next purchase if I were to build a lightweight hunting rifle.

 

[1shot]

I have had multiple shooters that don't own anything other than factory rigs shoot my BB Panda actions and the response is always the same. "I've never shot a group that small". Or "wow that bolt is smooth". When you can sit down and shoot another guys rifle better than your own, that should tell you something. Once again, it's the arrow.
I hope this helps.

Lloyd

 

[JRS]

I have had multiple shooters that don't own anything other than factory rigs shoot my BB Panda actions and the response is always the same. "I've never shot a group that small". Or "wow that bolt is smooth". When you can sit down and shoot another guys rifle better than your own, that should tell you something. Once again, it's the arrow.
I hope this helps.

Lloyd

More than one small group has been shot using a properly trued Remington action.