In BR it is different. You pick conditions and run them. It is not score but group. Look at the group aggregates they shoot in short range. FIVE 5 SHOT groups shoot in 5 different relays. The groups are impressive. They used to shoot Remingtons, but that sort of died out years ago. Even in 1000 yard BR the Remington have disappeared. 15 years ago they were about 50/50. Now I see almost none. Not even in the blocked heavy guns. There is a reason for that. MattI have Barnard's at $1200 .
I have Rem.SA with PTG Bolts
I can not out shoot anyone of them.
People love looking at those Barnard's
In the shooting Game in which I play Palma and 1000 yard Prone iron sights.
Those Barnard Action don't win me any more points. Or Money won't make you a winner.
It is not the Arrow ! It's the Indian .......
Custom actions.... are they worth the $$$$?
- Thread starter Mr.Knowit all
- Start date
I true my R.E.M. 700's and use a custom order PTG bolt. I'm not that impressed with PTG reamers anymore, but I have to say that these bolts I just got were dead nuts to my specs and were very true. If your not wanting different port configurations, this is definitely a good way to go. These PTG bolts measured more true than the last Stiller I built a rifle with. If I was going to buy a custom (hunting) action it would be a Borden. Just my 2¢
ttfreestyle
Silver $$ Contributor
This^^^^^^
Here's a link explaining why its not worth it to fix a 700. http://www.piercisionrifles.com/action-work/ Your better off selling your 700 action at a gunshow and putting that money towards a custom.
I would agree,although this assumes there was anything needing to be fixed with the factory action. While I currently have two customs on order, honestly I don't expect them to be more accurate than two rifles I built on factory savage actions. One can build a heck of a rifle on a factory action.
I would agree, but one has to be very lucky to overcome the odds against you with a factory action. Truth be told, I don't really like the odds of getting a custom that is 100%-considering the investment.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Some of you have posted that you do not think that an actions makes a difference in accuracy, I have seen instances where it definitely did. One friend had been plagued by accuracy problems and had gone through a couple of barrels trying to fix the problem. As you man know, barrels are not free. Finally he checked the action threads, it turned out that they were cocked and off center, so much that they had to be opened up .025 to clean up. After that work was done, he set his last barrel back and rechambered it, and the rifle began to shoot as it should have in the first place. Before that he had gotten away with ignoring the action threads on a number of factory actions, but on this one his luck ran out. He does his own barrel work, I hate to think about what that oversight would have cost him if he was paying someone to do that work. The other example was also a Remington that was barreled in .22-250 with a Hart barrel, the owner was always getting unexplained thrown shots. He blamed it on a number of things, but was never able to solve the problem, until I loaned him a tape about how to sleeve bolts, which he did to the problem rifle's bolt (which had been an unusually sloppy fit in the action body). Problem solved, the fliers went away. MY point is that assuming that a factory action will not hold you back is a gamble that those that choose to start with a custom action do not have to take. Actions matter. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not running with the big dogs all the time, and has been lucky with what he got. Take a look at what match winners use. They are not all rich, but they do know what it takes to win.
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I'd not sat I said action doesn't matter, but it depends on your purpose and reference frame. For hunting, unless you get a dud I say it just doesn't matter. I've got enough 1/3 to 1/2 moa all day factory action guns to convince me of this. Shoot BR this isn't good enough. I've shot exactly one f-class match, I saw enough from my targets to say my wind reading abilities were 10X more important than my factory action capable of 1/3 moa groups. When my abilities get to the point I care about 1/3 moa vs 1/4 moa, the action will matter. And onc you get to a certain level that indeed makes a difference.
ballistic64
Silver $$ Contributor
I just received my new Mountaineer. Chances are I am not good enough to absolutely tell the difference in accuracy between the Borden and a trued Remington. So to the OP's question, is it worth the money? To me, absolutely 100% yes. Only you can decide for you.
Very well put. True it and screw it. Otherwise spend the money on a custom or you'll go backwards. I like the pinned lug idea. Trued Rem actions will shoot.
external student,,,,go to a "real" shooting match and observe what is being done and what is being shot,,,talk to the shooters and (when they are not in the middle of the shooting day ) ask to cycle and handle the various custom actions that are there,,,,if you arent convinced ,,then stick with your Rem....Roger
I think the best way to answer this question is to use an analogy that is unrelated, yet represents the principle very well I will make.
If you run a car on a drag strip, you will be categorized into a slot. I.E. if your run times are representative of the category of "Super Stock" you will run against others in that category. The "tree lights" come down the pole at the same time. Then it is up to YOU and how strong your car runs, inside that category, to determine if you win. The key is "inside that category". There is a time spread inside that category. You can run Super Stock and barely make that category, OR you can run at the TOP of that category. The difference is YOU and your ability to drive AND the level of equipment in that car! The same with shooting disciplines.
I shoot F-Open. I am a "High Master" at both Mid-Range and Long-Range in F-Open. I have shot against the likes of Mark Walker, Ken Dickerman, Dave Gosnel, Dan Bramley and John Myer. They are ALL High Masters at Long-Range and Mid-Range too! On a day that is going MY WAY (all the stars line up for me) I can be competitive against them and may even beat some of them. BUT as a general rule, especially at Long-Range, I will lose! I am simply not in their "realm" even though we are ALL High-Masters. In THEIR REALM, it may very well come down to one point or even just "X" count of who will win. At that level, if you don't have the VERY BEST equipment, you may compete BUT the chances of a win against one of those guys who IS using the BEST OF THE BEST equipment, is diminished to some degree. So if you want to compete against the BEST in the particular discipline you are in, you had better use the BEST equipment to gain EVERY advantage there is. Why make a $$$s mistake? If you are shooting F-Open often, you will burn up more components during the year BY FAR than whatever the difference in cost there is between a trued up Remington and the cost of a B.A.T. "M"! So if $$$s is in the equation, look at the cost, over the competition YEAR and see just how much money is being spent on components>>>don't be stingy on an action.
If you run a car on a drag strip, you will be categorized into a slot. I.E. if your run times are representative of the category of "Super Stock" you will run against others in that category. The "tree lights" come down the pole at the same time. Then it is up to YOU and how strong your car runs, inside that category, to determine if you win. The key is "inside that category". There is a time spread inside that category. You can run Super Stock and barely make that category, OR you can run at the TOP of that category. The difference is YOU and your ability to drive AND the level of equipment in that car! The same with shooting disciplines.
I shoot F-Open. I am a "High Master" at both Mid-Range and Long-Range in F-Open. I have shot against the likes of Mark Walker, Ken Dickerman, Dave Gosnel, Dan Bramley and John Myer. They are ALL High Masters at Long-Range and Mid-Range too! On a day that is going MY WAY (all the stars line up for me) I can be competitive against them and may even beat some of them. BUT as a general rule, especially at Long-Range, I will lose! I am simply not in their "realm" even though we are ALL High-Masters. In THEIR REALM, it may very well come down to one point or even just "X" count of who will win. At that level, if you don't have the VERY BEST equipment, you may compete BUT the chances of a win against one of those guys who IS using the BEST OF THE BEST equipment, is diminished to some degree. So if you want to compete against the BEST in the particular discipline you are in, you had better use the BEST equipment to gain EVERY advantage there is. Why make a $$$s mistake? If you are shooting F-Open often, you will burn up more components during the year BY FAR than whatever the difference in cost there is between a trued up Remington and the cost of a B.A.T. "M"! So if $$$s is in the equation, look at the cost, over the competition YEAR and see just how much money is being spent on components>>>don't be stingy on an action.
Ben, that is one of the best explanations I ever read. Matt
Eternal Student, heres my 7 lb 6.5mm SAUM (loaded and ready to go).
Built on a trued Remington 700 short action, fitted with a Wyatts extended box magazine so I can seat the Berger 140gr hunting VLD so the base of the bullet is level with the top of the shoulder (i am currently using 63grs Retumbo with no compression). Bolt is a PTG spiral fluted with skeletonised handle, M16 extractor and PTG aluminium bolt shroud. Defensive Edge custom bolt release and PTG Oberndorf aluminium bottom metal (standard Remington BDL bottom metal is junk).Lightweight Tally mounts, scope is a Bushnell 3500 4-12x DOA
Barrel is a 24 inch Criterion 1:8 twist fluted, slightly thicker than a 700 SPS contour. Stock is a McMillan McWoody, all metal work Cerakoted black.Gunsmithing down here in New Zealand by Scott Traill (no longer gunsmithing, mine was his last build).
Pushes 140gr Berger Hunting VLD's at 3075fps which is pretty much .264 Winchester Magnum ballistics.
This is a 0.332 MOA group shot off my bipod with the berger 140 hunting VLD at 0.70 off lands. Constantly hovers at 0.5 MOA or better (depends on the operator). As this is purely a hunting rifle then a Remington 700 (with a few custom additions) is all I'll ever want or need. However, if it was for a real accuracy job i'd certainly go a custom action.
Built on a trued Remington 700 short action, fitted with a Wyatts extended box magazine so I can seat the Berger 140gr hunting VLD so the base of the bullet is level with the top of the shoulder (i am currently using 63grs Retumbo with no compression). Bolt is a PTG spiral fluted with skeletonised handle, M16 extractor and PTG aluminium bolt shroud. Defensive Edge custom bolt release and PTG Oberndorf aluminium bottom metal (standard Remington BDL bottom metal is junk).Lightweight Tally mounts, scope is a Bushnell 3500 4-12x DOA
Barrel is a 24 inch Criterion 1:8 twist fluted, slightly thicker than a 700 SPS contour. Stock is a McMillan McWoody, all metal work Cerakoted black.Gunsmithing down here in New Zealand by Scott Traill (no longer gunsmithing, mine was his last build).
Pushes 140gr Berger Hunting VLD's at 3075fps which is pretty much .264 Winchester Magnum ballistics.
This is a 0.332 MOA group shot off my bipod with the berger 140 hunting VLD at 0.70 off lands. Constantly hovers at 0.5 MOA or better (depends on the operator). As this is purely a hunting rifle then a Remington 700 (with a few custom additions) is all I'll ever want or need. However, if it was for a real accuracy job i'd certainly go a custom action.
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