Current F-Class National Records

[effendude]

World records are groups that occurred ONE time. These are not groups that these F-Class guys are going out and shooting every match.

1/2 MOA or less groups are pretty commonplace for long range BR shooters.

Big, you should take a look at match scores. The best shooters are often shooting nearly the same record scores over and over again. Just like in BR, sometimes the bullet land jsut slightly more favorable. The point of this post is the disciplines both require .5MOA accuracy or better to win. The disciplines are not the same game, but both require the most accuracy capable from a modern firerarm.

5 shots fired quickly in a recognized condition is not the same as 20 shots over an extended period of time with pit service, usually 10-15 minutes for the better shooters.

Scott

 

[dkhunt14]

We shoot all 10 shot groups light and heavy.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Steve, We could reverse that and say can an F class shooter completive at 1000 yd.BR. the answer would i doubt it. jim

I think David Gosnell might just prove this is not even close to being accurate.

Paging the Ninja...

 

[REastman]

That 150 300 yard score I think is 150-22x @ 300 ;D

I've only shot one or two benchrest matches, and one thing I kind of feel like kind of causes a little difference between F-Class and BR is the amount of ammo that must be loaded for a match. I'm not for certain about the larger BR matches (never shot one of those), but for the Sinclair Fullbore match coming up I need to have almost 300 rounds of pre-loaded ammo (no time to load in between each match). The few BR matches I have attended have not required that much ammo (usually 50 rounds). I am still trying to figure out how BR folks reload ammo in between a match!!! I think it ends up affecting the selectivity and culling processes a little bit. Just a thought...

 

[BigDMT]

World records are groups that occurred ONE time. These are not groups that these F-Class guys are going out and shooting every match.

1/2 MOA or less groups are pretty commonplace for long range BR shooters.

Big, you should take a look at match scores. The best shooters are often shooting nearly the same record scores over and over again. Just like in BR, sometimes the bullet land jsut slightly more favorable. The point of this post is the disciplines both require .5MOA accuracy or better to win. The disciplines are not the same game, but both require the most accuracy capable from a modern firerarm.

5 shots fired quickly in a recognized condition is not the same as 20 shots over an extended period of time with pit service, usually 10-15 minutes for the better shooters.

Scott

I see. I thought these records were being portrayed as "it's possible" rather than "this is common". My mistake.

I do believe that F-class shooters would probably have a slight advantage over BR "racers" on wind reading skills because they pay careful attention to it every single shot. A BR racer tries to get all rounds down range under the same gust of wind and sometimes fails to make the correct windage adjustments.

However, don't F-class shooters have "spotters" reading the wind for them in certain types of their competition?

 

[Lbart]

Since the thread title is - 'Current F-Class National Records' which are not based on groups let me throw this out there FWIW. It should start some discussion,

FC doesn't shoot for groups. We shoot for score and many times the better shooters are not shooting for the middle of the target. They are trying to keep all or as many of the shots as possible inside the ten ring by building the group on the safest side of center. This way if there is a pick up or let up not caught by the shooter the shot has a better chance of staying in the ten ring.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Since the thread title is - 'Current F-Class National Records' which are not based on groups let me throw this out there FWIW. It should start some discussion,

FC doesn't shoot for groups. We shoot for score and many times the better shooters are not shooting for the middle of the target. They are trying to keep all or as many of the shots as possible inside the ten ring by building the group on the safest side of center. This way if there is a pick up or let up not caught by the shooter the shot has a better chance of staying in the ten ring.

And that is what separates the high masters from everyone else. At least, in my opinion it does.

 

[johara1]

You guys are right world record groups happen one time in 10 min., F class world records happen one time in 20 min. and Agg. world record happen one time over the course of a shooting year….. When you get to the level where you have these records be thankful of all the people you have met and shoot with because it will all end some day……… Jim O'Hara

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Since the thread title is - 'Current F-Class National Records' which are not based on groups let me throw this out there FWIW. It should start some discussion,

FC doesn't shoot for groups. We shoot for score and many times the better shooters are not shooting for the middle of the target. They are trying to keep all or as many of the shots as possible inside the ten ring by building the group on the safest side of center. This way if there is a pick up or let up not caught by the shooter the shot has a better chance of staying in the ten ring.

This is exactly why I think these threads trying to compare BR to F-Class, or talking about F-Class match strings being some XX MOA, is a complete exercise in futility. They are entirely different disciplines with entirely different goals. The whole "whip it out and see who's is bigger" (smaller) MOA arguments get pretty stale.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Hey Larry, now changing the classification percentages had not occurred to me! That, my friend, IS the correct answer! It would accomplish the same task w/o adding the burden of the obvious logistical problems!! That is the right way to go!! I take my comment back about "getting people to think"!!

I disagree totally. I am an F-TR shooter who has absolutely no desire to ever shoot F-Open. I have recently attained Master classification at 1000 yards; don't mess with the those percentages now.

 

[ShootDots]

Hey Larry, now changing the classification percentages had not occurred to me! That, my friend, IS the correct answer! It would accomplish the same task w/o adding the burden of the obvious logistical problems!! That is the right way to go!! I take my comment back about "getting people to think"!!

I disagree totally. I am an F-TR shooter who has absolutely no desire to ever shoot F-Open. I have recently attained Master classification at 1000 yards; don't mess with the those percentages now.

Denys, it would not be to change F-T/R's percentages, ONLY raise the standard for F-Open... You can still have a fair shot at getting your High-Master classification, on the same targets, with the same percentages as now.. Only F-Open would then be harder to obtain and rightfully so, IMHO!!!!

 

[Erik Cortina]

Can anyone tell me what problem changing percentages would fix?

What happens with current HM when you increase the percentages?

You guys are starting to act like politicians. If it ain't broke...

 

[ShootDots]

Can anyone tell me what problem changing percentages would fix?

What happens with current HM when you increase the percentages?

You guys are starting to act like politicians. If it ain't broke...

Ahhh Erik! I have only been in this F-Open deal for 2 years and a few months. However, it is my understanding that when F-T/R and then F-Open became a viable substitute for "Sling Shooting" the targets remained the same size... The "Scoped / Front Rest" shooters were setting records like no tomorrow. So NRA reduced the size of the "sling shooters" target to what we have now. As Larry suggested, to take the same line of thinking and make the percentages HIGHER for F-Open, it would be more difficult, maybe on the same order as it is for F-T/R, to obtain a "High Master" classification... Then, it would present another set of "problems" >> what to do with "current" F-Open classification(s).. You could either let them remain, as they did from the target reduction change, OR start over... My opinion sets on the latter>>>but that is just an opinion..

 

[Erik Cortina]

What current problem would that fix?

 

[ShootDots]

The "problem" of how easy it is to make "High-Master" shooting F-Open as opposed to making High-Master pursuing ONLY F-T/R.... It would simply level the playing field vying for the "top classification" in both respective disciplines... I am not saying it is EASY to make High-Master in F-Open>> I have yet to accomplish that task, however, compared to F-T/R it is a lot easier... So if it is very difficult for sling to make that classification and obviously VERY difficult for F-T/R to make it, why NOT level the playing field for us F-Open shooters... I gave you ALL the reason TO DO IT, now you give me your reason why it should NOT be done..

 

[Steve Blair]

If a Marksman shoots the high score, doesn't he or she win? What difference would changing the percentage make? I only look at leader board position and don't care what the classification might be.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Absolutely correct, the classification has nothing to do with overall placement.

On the other hand there are payouts and medals and so on per classifications.

I'm just having fun at Ben's expense; I don't really care what you inflict in F-Openers.

 

[Erik Cortina]

ShootDots,

The reason not to do it is because it doesn't matter.

So what happens if I'm an F-Open shooter and now want to shoot F-T/R? Do I now shoot unclassified since classifications no longer interchange?

I agree with Steve Blair, why does classification matter? The high score wins regardless of classification.

So, lets say we change classification system and we had to start over. Don't you think the current HM would still have a higher classification than a current Master?

You make the argument that it's so easy to become a HM in F-Open.
If it's so easy to make HM, how come you are not a HM yet?

 

[smoking-brass]

If a Marksman shoots the high score, doesn't he or she win? What difference would changing the percentage make? I only look at leader board position and don't care what the classification might be.

Steve your point is well taken...at the of day highest avg. Wins....but it has nothing to do with the subject matter at hand. Shootdots has a excellent idea about how shooters obtain their nra classifications. We all know at long range f/o has and advantage over f/tr due to caliber selections. So...if the current percentages were raised a little for f/o.... it would make it as difficult to obtain any classifications as it has been for f/tr.

Vince

 

[ShootDots]

ShootDots,

The reason not to do it is because it doesn't matter.

So what happens if I'm an F-Open shooter and now want to shoot F-T/R? Do I now shoot unclassified since classifications no longer interchange?

I agree with Steve Blair, why does classification matter? The high score wins regardless of classification.

So, lets say we change classification system and we had to start over. Don't you think the current HM would still have a higher classification than a current Master?

You make the argument that it's so easy to become a HM in F-Open.
If it's so easy to make HM, how come you are not a HM yet?

Erik, where do you see in my posting that I stated that it was EASY to make High Master in F-Open?? I did NOT say it was easy... I DID say it is easy to make High Master in F-Open as compared to making it in F-T/R..

And yes, I believe if you change disciplines, you should start over in classifications. They are 2 separate disciplines! I don't care how you cut it>>>they are 2 different entities>>>period...