Current F-Class National Records

[Mark Walker in TX]

I would like to know what % of posts are used to achieve "Internet High Master" ?
Curious minds would like to know.... lol
Donovan

It is actually not a %, it is just a grand agg of 3000.
Then you are automatically classified as "Internet High Master"…

;D ;D

 

[Erik Cortina]

I will throw in my 2 cents worth as a young shooter...

Erik if it does not matter, then lets throw out the whole classification system and top score and agg wins everything?

High Master is not a level playing field across the disciplines...

As a young shooter, it is easy to get caught up in the ranking game. Personally for me score and agg is more important than rank. I knew the little "High Master" sig line would be a very expensive and lengthy (if attainable) proposition for FTR.

But FTR forces a skill set in the wind that I personally want... Sticking with FTR.

Getting rid of the classification system would rarely make any difference. Someone who isn't a high master can still win a match or agg, it just doesn't happen that often. High Masters get to be High Masters by shooting High Master scores, so they tend to win matches also. The whole point of the classification system is for shooters of similar skill levels to compete against each other. There is no reason to change classification percentages, target sizes or anything else. Pick what you want to do and try to do it.

Might come and try out the next World F-Class Championships to be held in Canada in 2016? F-Class marksmanship classifications are paid no heed in the World Championships...F-Open competitors shoot on par with everyone else!. Interestingly, in the top 25 F-Open competitors at the 2013 Worlds held last August in Raton, all were HM's except for 6 MA's...and a MA came in second place.

Dan Biggs
Team Berger

Danny, are they having a special "dry-run" World Championship in 2016? I was planning to be there for the 2017 Worlds.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

I will throw in my 2 cents worth as a young shooter...

Erik if it does not matter, then lets throw out the whole classification system and top score and agg wins everything?

High Master is not a level playing field across the disciplines...

As a young shooter, it is easy to get caught up in the ranking game. Personally for me score and agg is more important than rank. I knew the little "High Master" sig line would be a very expensive and lengthy (if attainable) proposition for FTR.

But FTR forces a skill set in the wind that I personally want... Sticking with FTR.

Getting rid of the classification system would rarely make any difference. Someone who isn't a high master can still win a match or agg, it just doesn't happen that often. High Masters get to be High Masters by shooting High Master scores, so they tend to win matches also. The whole point of the classification system is for shooters of similar skill levels to compete against each other. There is no reason to change classification percentages, target sizes or anything else. Pick what you want to do and try to do it.

Might come and try out the next World F-Class Championships to be held in Canada in 2016? F-Class marksmanship classifications are paid no heed in the World Championships...F-Open competitors shoot on par with everyone else!. Interestingly, in the top 25 F-Open competitors at the 2013 Worlds held last August in Raton, all were HM's except for 6 MA's...and a MA came in second place.

Dan Biggs
Team Berger

Danny, are they having a special "dry-run" World Championship in 2016? I was planning to be there for the 2017 Worlds.

Nooooooo...I'm just over eager to get it done (at age 75 not much shooting time left), so the incorrect date I guess! (But, there's a planned dry run there for the US F-Open Team that year.)

Dan Biggs
Team Berger

 

[Keith Glasscock]

This thread has run amok more than a little. Despite that, I've got to ask a question.

What does one get when they get a HM classification? The NRA must have forgotten to send mine...

I don't understand the frustration over the classification system we currently have. I shoot mostly mid range F class (because that is what's available here) and HM is not all that difficult to get to - a few years, a couple of barrels, and an epiphany about reloading - in F/TR. I've only shot one 300 yard match (trigger pulling contest?) with my new open rifle. A 600-40X was only good for next to last. I really need to work on the tune. Luckily for me, my HM followed me to open, or I'd look kind of funny as the only UN/MA at the match...

 

[broncman]

What is the percentage of F Open Long Range High Masters?

What is the percentage of FTR Long Range High Masters?

There is a disparity.... Why?


Erik?? Steve???
Curious as to your thoughts?

Classification aside, the guy or girl who knows their caliber and makes the right wind calls wins! But we all know that some calibers have much less margin of error and make attaining certain classifications more difficult. I AM NOT saying the others are easy either!

So, what are the current F Open and FTR records?


I stand behind my comment that it is not a level playing field when comparing High Masters between F Open and FTR. So what is the point of classifications? I beleive it is more of a personal goal and prestige thing. But so often FTR is the redheaded stepchild if the F Class system. I personally feel it is the harder od the two disciplines and the records appear to reflect that in the scores.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Level playing field? You do know that F-Open and F-T/R don't shoot against each other right? And also that classification has no effect on the final score?

It appears to me that the only ones that are not happy with this system so far are new guys that want to be HM. Instead of working their a$$es off to get there, they would rather change the system. Leave it alone!

To the new guys: Sign up for Nationals and you will realize that it does not matter!

 

[Erud]

But we all know that some calibers have much less margin of error and make attaining certain classifications more difficult.

Yes, but who cares? If you want to reach HM and have it be a little easier, just select a caliber with better ballistics. It sounds like you do not want that, and prefer the challenge of doing it in the FTR class. Good for you. If you make it, you will be able to say you made HM shooting FTR, and most would agree that that is a slightly greater achievement. So what's the problem? You do realize that no one is getting paid to do this, and no one else really cares, right? To the rest of the world, our shooting accomplishments are exactly as interesting as your neighbors bowling trophies. In the grand scheme of things, it means exactly nothing, so just try to enjoy yourself.

 

[Rtheurer]

Good Lord...

I can see this exact same discusion going on years and years ago.. before F class was even around or created.

For the NRA across the Course shooters it was I made High Master with a Service Rifle vs shooting and Match rifle. Then it was... I made High maste with and M1 or M14 not these easier to shoot Ar15's and then it was ...I made High master with a Palma Rifle in 308 and not a Magnum which is way easier. Same old story going around and around.

( I made High master with a Service rifle by the way) ( Sorry had to say it)

Funny stuff fellas.
Russ T

 

[broncman]

Erud

You hit the nail on the head! I do it for the challenge.

Erik, I do realize that at the worlds and a lot of state level and NRA matches they do not compete against each other , but at some CLUB levels they are thrown together!

But it is comments like yours in your last reply about not working their a$$es off to make high master that pisses people off. You make it sound like those that are not making High Masters im FTR are not working hard enough...like they " just need to pay their dues". Hence my question on the disparity question .

Just throwing that out there.....

I am done. Hopefully weather holds and I get to practice thos wekend

 

[effendude]

This thread is only 43 pages short of Erik's 100 yard load development page so let's keep this going! ;D

Some food for thought on how amazing these national records are, and any round target records with the real high X counts as well for that matter. The .5MOA X-ring on the F-Class target is only .5MOA at its highest and widest point. Misreading the wind by far less than .25MOA makes that .5MOA elevation waterline shot a 10 instead of an X. The same thing applies when you call the wind within .5MOA but your load isn't holding perfect elevation. Your shots will lose X count quickly. X count would be far easier if we shot at a square scoring ring instead of a round one, we wouldn't lose the leakers.

My club holds a wind reading clinic each year with some of the national team wind coaches as instructors. These guys are the best there is at calling wind and they state they try keep their calls within 1MOA.

Scott

 

[Erik Cortina]

Broncman, I did not realize that. I have never shot in a club that throws T/R and F-Open together. But nonetheless, it still doesn't matter because they are just club matches.

What I meant about working your A$$ off is that classification doesn't matter, if you are a sharpshooter and shoot the highest score, you still win!

 

[jscandale]

( I made High master with a Service rifle by the way) ( Sorry had to say it)

Funny stuff fellas.
Russ T

Ha! Russ, we can gloat together. Me too. Also made long range HM with an AR service rifle at 1000 at Camp Perry rather than 600yd prior to the mid range classification. Didn't need a scope and a rest to do it either. I guess I'll catch hell for that one...

JS

 

[effendude]

Broncman,
I have run club level matches for years. If there is more than one person in a class, we recognize them. Sometimes the guys running the matches are not aware of the issue or differences. There has been that issue all the way up to the Regional match levels. Take the inititive to work on the issue.

Scott

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Erud

You hit the nail on the head! I do it for the challenge.

Erik, I do realize that at the worlds and a lot of state level and NRA matches they do not compete against each other , but at some CLUB levels they are thrown together!

But it is comments like yours in your last reply about not working their a$$es off to make high master that pisses people off. You make it sound like those that are not making High Masters im FTR are not working hard enough...like they " just need to pay their dues". Hence my question on the disparity question .

Just throwing that out there.....

I am done. Hopefully weather holds and I get to practice thos wekend

If you want to hit HM that badly, then for mid-range go shoot a bunch of 300 yard matches. For LR, go shoot a bunch of Palma 800/900/1000 matches after checking the weather forecast. It's easy to game the system if classification is what matters to you. Personally, I'll probably never achieve LR HM in F-Open because it's damn near impossible to shoot HM scores for more than 1 relay or so at the only 1000 range available to me in WA state.

As far as I'm concerned, classification is fairly meaningless, when it's so easy to game the system, cherry picking your ranges, matches, and conditions. All I care about is who's name is at the top of the scoresheet.

 

[nosualc]

broncman,

If you're attending local tournaments that don't make a distinction between FO and FTR, they're doing it wrong.

If your goal is HM classification, although by no means easy, F-Open is an easier and quicker route to accomplish that. No doubt, and everybody knows it. Smile, know that you are taking a more arduous path.

If your goal is to win tournaments, classifications don't matter. You have to beat the other guy. In a sufficient field of competition, that is a difficult proposition in either class.

-nosualc

 

[nosualc]

( I made High master with a Service rifle by the way) ( Sorry had to say it)

Funny stuff fellas.
Russ T

Ha! Russ, we can gloat together. Me too. Also made long range HM with an AR service rifle at 1000 at Camp Perry rather than 600yd prior to the mid range classification. Didn't need a scope and a rest to do it either. I guess I'll catch hell for that one...

JS

No scope or rest, just a 4x bigger target.

Just a joke! I shouldn't have, but I had to!

-nosualc

ETA: Really just a joke, I've nothing but the highest respect for the sling and coat guys. Again, another shooting discipline with its own set of challenges.

 

[broncman]

Yes my goal is to win a tournament. At what rank I can accomplish that I dont care!

If my career and fiance do not get in the way, shooting has taken front and center in my hobbies.

Back to the title of the thread...

From NRA's websight

1000yards 20 shots:

F Open is a 3 way tie at 200 15x

FTR is 200 5x

Then various records for 15 shots, different yardages etc.

Some very impressive shooters!

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

When I first started in F-class, I was usually the only guy shooting F-TR and with a AR-15 in .223 to boot. For years, all I did was contribute cash to the F-Open winners.

When we started having a few more F-TR shooters we were able to create an F-TR tournament. It requires 3 or more people to do that or else the one or two F-TR shooters get thrown in with the F-Openers. I do not have a problem competing with F-Open masters, which is where classification is useful, Master is Master, just as Expert in Expert and so on.

If your goal is to get the highest classification and higher scores more quickly, shoot F-Open.

If your goal is to win matches, either one will do. F-Open winners do it in the X-count; F-TR winners do it in points. (Please note that is not always the case, but it's not infrequent.)

I am only interested in F-TR because I don't want to have to be always getting the latest darling cartridge to be competitive and I don't want to have to take my components to bed to make the absolute most perfect ammo. Add to that the need to have a cart-mounted crane to move the latest front rests while F-TR shooters are seeking the lightest bipod made of ionized Unobtainium.

Also, unlike many of the shooters posting on this thread I realized long ago that I am not a gifted shooter; I have to really work to hit the target. When missing an X will throw you out of contention in F-Open and dropping a point is tantamount to going home, I'll stick with F-TR where the next breeze can reshuffle the deck.

 

[Baka]

Apparantly I've been doing something wrong. I started shooting f-class open two year's back and it has been a blast. I didn't realize that all the bullshit and bickering about who shoot's what discipline or what classification you shoot was the important thing. Here I was stupid me having the time of my life sending bullet's down range and having fun hanging out with people that love to shoot. Afterward's a couple beer's and talking smart. Well I guess I'll just keep doing it my wrong way and have fun! Sorry to interrupt.Carry on gentlemen.

 

[Steve Blair]

I am only interested in F-TR because I don't want to have to be always getting the latest darling cartridge to be competitive and I don't want to have to take my components to bed to make the absolute most perfect ammo. Add to that the need to have a cart-mounted crane to move the latest front rests while F-TR shooters are seeking the lightest bipod made of ionized Unobtainium.

[br]
I'm very interested in your loading technique described above, Denys. What exactly is the purpose of taking the ammo to bed? Does it improve vertical? [br]
BTW, that cart-mounted crane is called a davit. Just wanted to get the terminology straight.