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COVID-19 Map worldwide, with statistics

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@SGK, my comments regarding trend and media were about the US. I showed EU and Uk for context. Because Europe never had a summer surge like the US had, their current surge looks steeper and likely more deadly. It's just possible the "area rule" cited by supposed experts early on was valid, wherein was stated flattening the curve will not reduce the area under the curve.
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Understood. The US "summer surge" was merely the first wave rolling through the sun-belt. Europe had its first wave much earlier. Now they face a second wave affecting not just cities that weren't on the sharp edge of things in the Spring but also those same cities again. Of course what's happening there is newsworthy not just because news shouldn't be so US-insular but also because of the possibility a similar pattern emerges here. Only time will tell. I'm sure COVID will remain newsworthy well after the US election and after the UK falls out of the EU without a trade deal and after.......

The "area" you speak of is determined by population and vaccine availability. Without the latter, the virus will trundle along until so-called herd immunity kicks in - if indeed it is achieved. With at least 60%+ of the population needing to be infected and developing sustainable antibodies there's a long way to go. Developing evidence that asymptomatic infection only generates temporary antibodies suggests herd immunity isn't an option. Thankfully a lot of effort and money is being plowed into vaccine development, production facilities and distribution centers. Of course people will need to take it - and likely annually.

PS it would be interesting to hear @Laurie 's thoughts on what's happening in the UK at the moment. Regional leadership have learnt to haggle for money in return for supporting elevated levels of COVID NPI. And ultimatums are being retuned to them.
 
PS it would be interesting to hear @Laurie 's thoughts on what's happening in the UK at the moment. Regional leadership have learnt to haggle for money in return for supporting elevated levels of COVID NPI. And ultimatums are being retuned to them.

To say there are divided responses and dissent here is to put it mildly.

First, the devolved regions / 'nations' (Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales) are all implementing their own responses largely uncoordinated with anything in England, the most populous part of the UK. Wales has today announced a two-week 'firebreak' starting Friday that is close to a full lockdown; Scotland and Ireland are moving to semi-lockdowns as so-called 'circuit breakers'.

In England, the north of the country started to see large rises in cases well before the south and London. A three tier categorisation of regional situations has been adopted - Tiers 1 (medium infection levels); 2 (high); 3 (very high). Over half the English population now live in a Tier 2 or 3 area. 2 stops mixing of households indoors and bar and restaurant 10 pm curfews; 3 sees the hospitality industry more or less shut down and a complete ban on household mixing including outdoors. It's all much more complex than this though and that's part of the problem - people are genuinely confused and often resentful / angry too.

There is growing dissent and disagreement now about what the case numbers really mean. With a 10-fold increase in testing, sure you'll find more cases. More important, hospitalisations / serious cases / deaths are growing much more slowly than in Wave 1. There is much evidence that case rises are heavily linked to the reopening of schools in early September and even more so universities and colleges from mid September. Unlike in many countries, UK university students mostly apply to institutions in other towns / cities / areas and live in hostels ('halls of residence'); shared rented houses. This sees huge mixing of people from all over the country and also from abroad given the very high level of foreign students in the UK. Where I live (York) we allegedly have 40,000 students here in term time, a city population increase of around 20% over the non-term periods. Students also apply to remote institutions despite the costs involved to enjoy the 'student experience' - making new friends and relationships, parties, drinking sessions, bull-sessions in communal areas in halls. So incidences of ignoring social distancing laws and regulations and subsequent virus transmission have been high causing rocketing local figures, but rises in hospitalisations / seriously ill individuals are much lower. Also, the teenage and young adult population Covid-weariness levels show signs of a huge rise with open defiance. Enforced 10 pm bar / restaurant / club curfews have seen huge informal street parties as thousands exit hospitality venues with the police struggling to break them up and persuade them to go home. Many no doubt then go to alfresco parties in private homes too. There is a £10,000 spot fine for running illegal parties and many cases of people caught and fined, but this is no doubt the tip of a large iceberg.

London and the south have seen lesser growth rates, but still enough for London and a large area around it to be moved from Tier 1 to 2. There is growing public and local political cynicism / scepticism over the value of Tier 2 regulations and probably resulting large scale non-compliance. So Tier 3 impositions - and worse - are increasingly on the cards. Public Health England and SAGE only have one answer to everything - broadscale restrictions and ultimately full lockdown until a vaccine appears.

Now ..... interestingly a large discrepancy in attitudes / behaviours is becoming apparent. In polls there is a large majority (>60%) for ever tighter restrictions; in private huge non-compliance. There are in effect no checks on whether those traced and told to isolate, even go into a full 14-day quarantine do so. There is also NO support. Starve or lose your job / house in quarantine? Your problems! Research now comes up with the risible figure of 11% compliance with isolation or quarantine orders. !!!!

Also, local politicians and also Members of Parliament for affected areas are now kicking back. Up to now government and PHE have simply imposed measures often at 36 hours notice and given no justifications. 'No more!' say the people's representatives. Prove the need! The 10 pm bar / restaurant curfew has reduced already affected takings by an additional 40%. Will the measure work? Research says <5% of new transmissions arise in these establishments. Government admits there is no scientific proof - but curfews are needed 'to send a message to the public' - actually said in meetings with local bodies and since passed on in the media. In Greater Manchester, it is not just the local (Labour Party) mayor saying 'No!!' to Tier 3 imposition, but a whole raft of local MPs including many Conservative Party politicos are telling their own government to prove the need or back off. Money/compensation negotiating games are part of the current dance / impasse - but it is way more than just this factor affecting attitudes and stances. Police chiefs in such areas hint that they won't apply emergency laws if imposed without proof or justification too.

So, we are at a crossroads. If behaviours don't change and hospitalisations / deaths rise rapidly there will inevitably be a return to widescale geographic lockdowns. If new cases stay high / rise, but serious illness and deaths remain manageable, what's left of Boris Johnson's already minimal credibility will be flushed down a drain and HMG may as well sack its lockdown and modelling obsessed senior officials and advisers.

Identical events are happening all over Europe. Even Germany has seen the 'Lands' (regions) start to oppose new central government restrictions and refuse to implement them (as they can under the very devolved Federal German constitution). Land courts are also now overturning Federal restrictions such as a successful court application by a Berlin bar chain against an 11pm pub curfew. No proof of need provided by central government and the measure judged 'disproportionate'.

Interesting times ... as they say!
 
How many "degrees" of sickness should there be? Seems like a positive test should be a case since you can be a spreader whether you are asymptomatic or not. IMO people who are careless and don't give a rat's ass about doing what they need to do to protect themselves and others deserve what they get if they should get a case serious enough to require medical intervention. If you get it and "recover" you are still subject to the possibility of re-infection or other complications down the road.
Read the article I posted a few days ago. There are many false positives. What's the harm in being on the "safe side" you may ask. Read the article. Massive testing has not proven the panacea many, including some present here, have touted. Even Dear Leader Fauci has cautioned about mass testing (before flip-flopping yet again.) The case numbers I sometimes cite here (from 91-Divoc) are describe as "confirmed cases". They are much fewer (or should be) than "test positives" which are gleefully shouted out by media outlets with skin in the political game.

Now, where are these millions of folk in the UK getting the idea that lockdowns are futile? As usual they are being accused of being brainwashed by Internet "disinformation", or of being selfish antisocial rabble for not simply drinking the government-dispensed KoolAid. Same as in the US. Are not The People capable of smelling out a rat by looking at the readily-available data on cases, deaths, and hospital utilization, and evaluating the trade-offs of lockdowns? We are to believe not.
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Don't confuse 'thinking they're futile' with just being plain frustrated ("lockdown fatigue"). We're social animals. And perceptions of costs all depend on how close those costs are.
 
Don't confuse 'thinking they're futile' with just being plain frustrated ("lockdown fatigue"). We're social animals. And perceptions of costs all depend on how close those costs are.
I seriously doubt lockdown fatigue will outweigh a genuine belief that ignoring directives will produce the dire consequences predicted. In the US anyway, we're close to falling below the "excess deaths" threshold, and most of the excess now are from knock-on effects rather than "from or with Covid-19".
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Covid deaths are subsiding in the US, averaging slightly over 2 deaths per million population per day. But, on average, over 16 per million die every day from some disease. Stick that up your flue and smoke it, Elmer.
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Here's the updated graph showing deaths/day/million for US, UK, EU, and added Sweden, for comparison. How's Sweden (red) holding up in the fearmongering game?

Today's Yahoo! Finance story on US financial markets included "... the virus situation in the U.S. remains dire." Yikes, that sounds scary. But the graph and Covid-19 death rate cited above do not scare me.

91-DIVOC-countries-normalized-UnitedStates (8).jpg
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@SGK,

You put me onto something, mentioning the US South's surge. In fact, as shown below, 3 of 4 major regions have had their day in the sun: Normalized for population, it was NE in spring, South in Summer, and now Midwest is climbing to the same altitude. But curiously, the West has avoided a "dire" surge in cases so far, staying at or below the US average.
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91-DIVOC-countries-normalized-UnitedStates (9).jpg
 
Not being involved at all what is the protocol for when someone tests positive? Accept as reliable or retest to confirm?
I don't know the protocol, but Alabama coach Nick Saban tested positive last week, with no symptoms, then within 48 hours tested negative. A "confirmed" designation must require either a subsequent positive test, or symptoms, or both. Not sure what else there could be.
 
With a population of 350 million that's 70 new deaths per day from COVID or COVID assisted. There were 6 here in Iowa alone in the last 24 hours. 70 seems low to me.
I caught my mistake, and thought I had edited the post within 2 minutes, but lo and behold it wasn't corrected ... until now. Still, 1/8th of usual deaths.
 
70 per day is about 500 per week so to go from 200,000 to the current 220,000 would have taken 40 weeks or 10 months; almost as long as the virus has been our guest. When did COVID related deaths suddenly come to a screeching halt?
You asked a simple question "which is correct 2 per million or 0.2 per million?" Well, which is correct?
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To say there are divided responses and dissent here is to put it mildly.

First, the devolved regions / 'nations' (Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales) are all implementing their own responses largely uncoordinated with anything in England, the most populous part of the UK. Wales has today announced a two-week 'firebreak' starting Friday that is close to a full lockdown; Scotland and Ireland are moving to semi-lockdowns as so-called 'circuit breakers'.

In England, the north of the country started to see large rises in cases well before the south and London. A three tier categorisation of regional situations has been adopted - Tiers 1 (medium infection levels); 2 (high); 3 (very high). Over half the English population now live in a Tier 2 or 3 area. 2 stops mixing of households indoors and bar and restaurant 10 pm curfews; 3 sees the hospitality industry more or less shut down and a complete ban on household mixing including outdoors. It's all much more complex than this though and that's part of the problem - people are genuinely confused and often resentful / angry too.

There is growing dissent and disagreement now about what the case numbers really mean. With a 10-fold increase in testing, sure you'll find more cases. More important, hospitalisations / serious cases / deaths are growing much more slowly than in Wave 1. There is much evidence that case rises are heavily linked to the reopening of schools in early September and even more so universities and colleges from mid September. Unlike in many countries, UK university students mostly apply to institutions in other towns / cities / areas and live in hostels ('halls of residence'); shared rented houses. This sees huge mixing of people from all over the country and also from abroad given the very high level of foreign students in the UK. Where I live (York) we allegedly have 40,000 students here in term time, a city population increase of around 20% over the non-term periods. Students also apply to remote institutions despite the costs involved to enjoy the 'student experience' - making new friends and relationships, parties, drinking sessions, bull-sessions in communal areas in halls. So incidences of ignoring social distancing laws and regulations and subsequent virus transmission have been high causing rocketing local figures, but rises in hospitalisations / seriously ill individuals are much lower. Also, the teenage and young adult population Covid-weariness levels show signs of a huge rise with open defiance. Enforced 10 pm bar / restaurant / club curfews have seen huge informal street parties as thousands exit hospitality venues with the police struggling to break them up and persuade them to go home. Many no doubt then go to alfresco parties in private homes too. There is a £10,000 spot fine for running illegal parties and many cases of people caught and fined, but this is no doubt the tip of a large iceberg.

London and the south have seen lesser growth rates, but still enough for London and a large area around it to be moved from Tier 1 to 2. There is growing public and local political cynicism / scepticism over the value of Tier 2 regulations and probably resulting large scale non-compliance. So Tier 3 impositions - and worse - are increasingly on the cards. Public Health England and SAGE only have one answer to everything - broadscale restrictions and ultimately full lockdown until a vaccine appears.

Now ..... interestingly a large discrepancy in attitudes / behaviours is becoming apparent. In polls there is a large majority (>60%) for ever tighter restrictions; in private huge non-compliance. There are in effect no checks on whether those traced and told to isolate, even go into a full 14-day quarantine do so. There is also NO support. Starve or lose your job / house in quarantine? Your problems! Research now comes up with the risible figure of 11% compliance with isolation or quarantine orders. !!!!

Also, local politicians and also Members of Parliament for affected areas are now kicking back. Up to now government and PHE have simply imposed measures often at 36 hours notice and given no justifications. 'No more!' say the people's representatives. Prove the need! The 10 pm bar / restaurant curfew has reduced already affected takings by an additional 40%. Will the measure work? Research says <5% of new transmissions arise in these establishments. Government admits there is no scientific proof - but curfews are needed 'to send a message to the public' - actually said in meetings with local bodies and since passed on in the media. In Greater Manchester, it is not just the local (Labour Party) mayor saying 'No!!' to Tier 3 imposition, but a whole raft of local MPs including many Conservative Party politicos are telling their own government to prove the need or back off. Money/compensation negotiating games are part of the current dance / impasse - but it is way more than just this factor affecting attitudes and stances. Police chiefs in such areas hint that they won't apply emergency laws if imposed without proof or justification too.

So, we are at a crossroads. If behaviours don't change and hospitalisations / deaths rise rapidly there will inevitably be a return to widescale geographic lockdowns. If new cases stay high / rise, but serious illness and deaths remain manageable, what's left of Boris Johnson's already minimal credibility will be flushed down a drain and HMG may as well sack its lockdown and modelling obsessed senior officials and advisers.

Identical events are happening all over Europe. Even Germany has seen the 'Lands' (regions) start to oppose new central government restrictions and refuse to implement them (as they can under the very devolved Federal German constitution). Land courts are also now overturning Federal restrictions such as a successful court application by a Berlin bar chain against an 11pm pub curfew. No proof of need provided by central government and the measure judged 'disproportionate'.

Interesting times ... as they say!

So what is the reporting from Sweden over there in the UK? What is being reported here is that there are still no lockdowns and the Swedes are still going about their business as they have from the beginning.
 
Since 2 per mil would be 700 per day it would seem like the 0.2 is the more nearly correct number.
Yep. I thought my 91-Divoc (Johns Hopkins) data showed "per 1M" but it's "per 100K". Oops. So I deleted that part. Too bad everyone doesn't use the same reporting standard.
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So what is the reporting from Sweden over there in the UK? What is being reported here is that there are still no lockdowns and the Swedes are still going about their business as they have from the beginning.

The British media seem to have largely lost interest in Sweden as far as I can see. (Unless there has been TV reporting which I wouldn't see having given up on that form of communication some years back.)

There was a very brief mention in a Sunday newspaper last weekend that the country may institute some more 'conventional' restrictive measures in response to recent increases in case numbers. Media interest here is currently 90% focused on the current battle of wills between central government and the larger northern conurbations over Tier 3 imposition. (I just listened 10 minutes ago to a long BBC radio interview with the elected mayor of Middlesbrough which is rumoured to be next to be bumped up from Tier 2 to 3.) Most other second wave coverage concentrates on the worst hit continental European countries and their governments' responses.
 
Guys, be careful not to feed the troll! He will try to get you to cross the line in order to get the thread locked. I have him on ignore, but the new format shows when he posts. For the life of me I can’t figure out why he’s allowed to continue posting here. There’s obviously something fishy about someone who has to change user names every few weeks.
 
FWIW - and I recognize few here subscribe to it but the quality of its reporting really is exemplary - the FT is running a series of articles under the umbrella "COVID: could the world have been spared?" that are really well written and researched. Part 1, published yesterday, covers the very early phase of the pandemic and the reaction, sluggish at first, of Chinese authorities and the issues involved therein. Part 2, covers a range of paradoxes in data. Fascinating. Part 3, published today, covers the early days of the virus in Europe and all the various mistakes made and why. The articles so far are worth a month's subscription. https://www.ft.com/content/efdadd97-aef5-47f1-91de-fe02c41a470a
 
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