Combined Connecticut and Gun Issues Thread

[littlebuddybr]

I know alot of schools have police in them during school hours. Maybe the answer is to put police in all schools.
And maybe all alcohol products should be banned since twice the amount people get killed each year with drinking and driving then guns?

Signut, I am truley sorry for your loss.

 

[mikecr]

You are not totally alone.

I agree with Brad as well, and so does my 23yr old son.
His generation is sick of the hypocrisies, of 16-18yrs of school just to get a job application considered by HR, and of being treated with disrespect, their entire lives, by a society pissing away anything for his future.

Of course most of his generation won't snap to shooting people. They're good kids who have worked their butts off in school.
Maybe the future will brighten for them who knows.
But certain probabilities exist, will likely increase(as 18yrs of school fails to provide diddly), and murdercides are just one potential in it..

 

[dtucker]

If the teachers had been trained to shoot and handle firearms properly and had had them they would have nipped it in the bud right away and they would have been heroes to the reporters and media and firearms would be looked at in a different view. This mental fellow just put the nail in the coffin and got the wheels turning ever faster along with the media frenzy. Hell, our freedom has already been lost in many states for some time for firearm owners not to mention in our class rooms and elsewhere because some foreigner has moved over here and does not like how we worship and believe in God. They get taken care of better than the people working supporting this country and all the people who think they are entitled to all the free cheese and the drippings that go with it. This sad country of mine that i live in is in bad shape all the way around. If you paid attention in history class since the begining, empires and countries throughout time till today that have been here long before this country, have collapsed from the inner or been taken from another. My friends and brothers......don't think it is not going to happen here sometime down the road. At my age i doubt i will see it but it has already started and it has happened already once before.

 

[Steve Blair]

About 32,000 firearms related deaths occur each year in the U.S. About 16,000 are suicides, 13,000 homicides, the rest justifiable shootings and accidents. Approximately 80% of the homicides are perpetrated by career criminals or gang members. [br]
About 75,000 alcohol related deaths occur each year in the U.S. A good percentage of firearms related deaths invlove alcohol. I watched my father kill himself with a bottle, destroy his marriage and wreck a family. Thankfully, he never killed anyone behind the wheel. But, he was not the only casualty. [br]
I don't drink alcohol and don't care if anyone does responsibly. But, if it would only save one life, shouldn't we ban it forever? It serves no purpose except to ruin lives. [br]
Sound familiar? It's the same argument used by anti-gun advocates. Prohibitions do not work. If people want something and are willing to break laws to get it, they will have it. The only thing alcohol prohibition did was to create a new, wealthy class of criminal, Joseph P. Kennedy among them. Firearms prohibitions have far worse consequences.

 

[M14AMU]

I have re-read all of the posts, and cannot find a statement from anyone, myself included, that is accusing dealers or stores of "promoting" the killing of innocent people. If the posts are read and understood as written, not taken out of context, and without adding words of one's choosing to change the meaning, the meaning really is quite easy to understand.

As always Kevin, your statement is right on the money. You use your guns legally. Unfortunately, too many do not. If the killer of those young children had to resort to using a rifle that had to be shouldered, or a handgun that required a fair amount of marksmanship, the outcome would surely have been different. When some nut job has something such as a Bushmaster/AK derivative using 30 round magazines, which requires little more than pointing and squeezing the trigger, the chances of hitting and killing increase 100 fold. If giving up my high capacity magazines would save the life of just one child, I would not hesitate to relinquish them. If by doing so and having them destroyed would keep them out of the hands of those who should not possess them, I would give them up in a heartbeat.

JRS

Here's a direct quote from your post:

" At the time, you did not see gun magazines promoting tactical gear, high cap magazines, tactical training. We are so eager to blame mental illness as the contributing factor. Why? Because that is what we want people to believe. We promote the use of guns, no matter the type, yet are so eager to blame the media, liberals and mental illness when they are used to kill innocent people."

Now...my reading comprehension is pretty good and the way I take your above comment is that because some magazines promote tactical gear, high cap magazines as well as tactical training....that this is somehow directly related to assisting some 'nut-case' into creating a tragedy like onto the Sandy Hook incident!! As for the media....as long as they are allowed to give what the depraved would consider as 'hero status' to each and every idiot that slaughters innocents, hours and hours of recognition....this is just adding fuel to the fire for other idiots to up the score!! And you'll never convince me that anyone that does this sort of thing to innocents isn't suffering from mental illness! And if you think giving up your high cap mags is going to satisfy the liberals....then you're about one full bubble off of plumb! You need to go back and study history dude!!

 

[ibgolfr]

There certainly is an argument that promoting sales of certain sorts of weapons could increase their us by irresponsible individuals. However, the gun alone is not to blame. Deranged individuals have been around for more years than we can could In 1927 a deranged individual was responsible for the worst school killing than either Aurora Co or Ct.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/17/worst-school-massacre-was-bombing-in-1927

The weapons used in this instance were not purchased illegally. They were not the individual who used them property. The same goes for another recent shooting wherein the killer stole the weapons. People that want to kill others, one at a time or in mass will find a away and that is an unfortunate truth.

 

[Johnboy]

First off if we brought back harsh punishment then the bad guys would rethink their ways.Trust me if the gal or gent stealing the gas lost their finger or hand then they wouldn't do it again,would you.

Second this wouldn't take away job.,The government has already done this by letting work places go across the border and other countries.It would make jobs by needing officers to keep them from getting away and making sure they do their job.Plus it saves money from free labor.To me they lost their right to anything when put in jail or prison.Its the old saying ( if you can't do the time then don't do the crime ) well we have trashed that saying many years ago when we let them do as they please.Prison is a joke now,we let them do too much for a crime they did.If you do not like the idea of working them, then we can just leave them in the little rooms all day.No matter how you or I look at it,they get away with their crime with the way we run things.If reminded every day to why they are there then crime rates would drop.The talk of being treated bad would be enough to help out with crime rates.

Its no different than the way we run schools now.Now we just put them into after school detention or something like it.When we got a good few licks from a home made paddle we changed our minds to wanting to never do it again.Our homes as well have choose this way ( but not mine ) I like a good old belt when need to be used.Its the way of my dad it as mine.Harsh punishment has and will go along ways,you just have to put it to work.

Yes,bringing cops to our schools is a start.I too really feel the same about this.I hope to chat with our local sherrif and have a good chat with him.I think putting plain cloths officers in will be a much need thing. ( making jobs )Even getting some parrents who carry come around from time to time might be a good idea,but this will take a lot more thinking to put to work.Training will be a must even target training while running a drill of some sort.

 

[littlebuddybr]

Don't it seem a little weird that all these mass shootings over the past years and none of the shooters/psycho's left a letter?? Maybe anti-gov or anti-religion or something? Maybe the gov don't want the public to see so as to not promote??

Why does there seem to be so many school shootings? Don't seem to remember hearing about them when I was a kid.

And I Think you are 100% wrong to think that because something says tactical on it someone thinks thats the green light to go shoot up a school!!!
I have a pair of boots that were called tactical. I never thought I should go kicks someones face in with them!! By the way I hate they are called tactical but they are comftable.

 

[gotcha]

Haven't yet seen the "reporter" that can manufacture more mis-information than Dianne Sawyer. Shame on the Pennsylvania cops. In this instance they're the perps of this scam.

 

[dtucker]

Ya know Dan Tucker, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. The biggest problem with arming teachers is this: They are trained via education to teach. They are not trained to shoot, nor confront killers. With the enormous amount of time they spend with their students on a daily basis, grading papers at home, preparing for the next days activities, when would they find time to practice on a daily basis to be proficient in the use of a weapon? A poll was taken a couple of years ago with 2500 teachers across the country regarding the use of carrying a weapon in school. 98% of the 2500 polled said they not only did not have the time to practice the use, but also deplored the thought of having a loaded gun in the classroom with their students. Arming teachers in our schools will never be the answer. We are a country living in fear. Not only fear from terrorist's from other country's, but also fear domestically. This baloney of protecting ourselves from government tyranny is BS. One would not stand a chance of defending themselves against the group of well armed, well trained gentlemen who might be ordered to knock on your door to take away your guns. We live in the real world, not a hollywood fantasy land.

Their is no easy answer JRS. If times are changing then sometimes you have to change with the time. I don't know how your teachers work their or elswhere but ours are off for the summer. Their would be plenty of time to be trained properly to use a firearm. We have had a police officer at our school for some years. And i am not sure that if teachers had the opportunity to have a firearm it would still be a safe bet as their are a lot of big and unruly individuals in school on drugs that could end up beating a teacher and taking it.

As far as it going as to have people start knocking on doors to take our firearms.....very highly unlikely, that is what would be the start of another civil war.

 

[timeout]

Thankfully, I have never had to bear the loss of a child. I've had close friends and relatives though that have lost children. I cannot possibly know the pain and grief those folks bore. I went to their homes and tried to give comfort as best I could. I prayed and felt great sorrow for them. I have prayed for the families of those slain in Conneticut. In another OP on this forum I have stated that now is a time for praying and sorrow, not the time to fight the gun control issue. That time will come. When it comes, I hope that all issues will be openly and honestly debated. I have pretty much given up on politics following the November election. It is apparent to me that this Country wants a socialistic society. A society that makes it easy for the lazy to live off the backs of the working man. I will draw the line on taking my guns. I'm sure the schools don't teach the events of Nazi Germany these days, but I have not forgotten. First came gun registration. Next they knocked on doors and confiscated the guns. The final act was loading up millions of innocent people and hauling them off to Nazi death camps. I may not be able to defend myself against the "highly trained gentlemen" the government sends to my door to confiscate my guns, but I'll just die right here, not in a death or enslavement camp. To each his own, I will choose to die a free man.

 

[Jim See]

JRS, I have a problem with most of your statement, arming teachers, yes most would not do it or not do it well, but I know every school has some teachers who already have and know how to use a firearm, janitors, administrators, coaches, vice/principals, secretaries,teachers aids. There is a multitude of people in a school building that do not have direct teaching responsibilities and the responsibility of running and organizing a classroom. Just having 5 armed employees in a 500 student school would be a huge deterrent, not to mention parents with ccw permits who may be visiting, picking up and dropping off kids ect. Gun Free School Zones do absolutely zero to protect kids.

Second,

[u][/u]One would not stand a chance of defending themselves against the group of well armed, well trained gentlemen who might be ordered to knock on your door to take away your guns.

It might work at the first dozen houses but after that... sorry they will get there ass handed to them in pieces. There are many many more retired military that would defend the constitution from the "Black Hooded Men" then what is currently in the military. If you hang around former military men very often you would understand there comittment to freedom, and there ability to organize, (a trait they were taught and perfected during combat) would manifest itself in an organized rebellion. Hell if they started in the state of Oklahoma it would all end right there. I have and do shoot with some of the best practical/ tactical marksmen in this country, I know what our capabilities are and they far exceed the marksmanship of the individual ground troop, who receives minimal amount of gun training and practice time in today's army.

Now if the goal of a tyrannical government was to un-restrain the entire US weapons systems on ALL the people and not just an organized force of freedom fighters, then yes not much we could do, but now your discussing genocide.

All you have to do is look at Syria, if that doesn't tell you anything then I guess my pointing it out is a waste of my time. What did Waco teach you, obviously nothing, but it taught me that if the davidians were mainstream and well supported outside of that one compound, they could have sent in a assult that would have surrounded government officials. 50 years ago in South Dakota the Native Americans were under seige and fire by the US government and they held out in a old school building, and eventually found resolution. I believe that lasted months. The only thing that held the gov men at bay was the armed men defending that hold-out.

Now I not only worked for a sheriffs dept. I was a Sheriffs Deputy at one time and I know the limitations of law enforcement. I will tell you this, with-out help from the good people of any community, law enforcement officers would be 100% ineffective in nearly any aspect of there jobs.

So lets pass more legislation that makes more criminals, so good people go bad, and law enforcement has the table turned on them, government will then have to grow bigger to protect the people from the criminals, who wouldn't be criminals if government understood how to make people BE SAFE, rather than FEEL SAFE.

Ya know Dan Tucker, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. The biggest problem with arming teachers is this: They are trained via education to teach. They are not trained to shoot, nor confront killers. With the enormous amount of time they spend with their students on a daily basis, grading papers at home, preparing for the next days activities, when would they find time to practice on a daily basis to be proficient in the use of a weapon? A poll was taken a couple of years ago with 2500 teachers across the country regarding the use of carrying a weapon in school. 98% of the 2500 polled said they not only did not have the time to practice the use, but also deplored the thought of having a loaded gun in the classroom with their students. Arming teachers in our schools will never be the answer. We are a country living in fear. Not only fear from terrorist's from other country's, but also fear domestically. This baloney of protecting ourselves from government tyranny is BS. One would not stand a chance of defending themselves against the group of well armed, well trained gentlemen who might be ordered to knock on your door to take away your guns. We live in the real world, not a hollywood fantasy land.

 

[1holeaddict]

Well we live on a private dead end road in farm country and when i heard pounding on my door at 11:00 at night i took action. A 40 caliber Glock was handed to the wife and a 40 caliber M&P came with me. I am an electrician so the house is equipped with motion detectors lights everywhere and none were on so i knew whoever it was has been lurking for several minutes. Then lights started coming on and i took position at the front door and what steps up on the porch and raises his hand to once again pound on my door. A local police officer. When he saw that tube starring him in his face he froze. I then made him id himself and looked around the garage to see a police car in the driveway before allowing him entry. He was checking a 911 call out from my residence that was later found out to be caused by a bad chip out in the phone companies hub. My point is even trained pros can go into shock and freeze up. I'm just glad he didn't go for his weapon and begin firing. We had a conversation on how things could have gotten ugly pretty fast and he admitted he shouldn't of been lurking around my pitch dark house and should of came with his lights on his car. Amen

 

[BigDMT]

In ancient times, men tried their whole lives to do great things in order to become "immortal" in the records of history. Some were evil, some were just, some were scrupulous, in their deeds to be forever known throughout the ages of history.

The worst punishment for a man, society, or kingdom back then was to be stricken from the records of history. There were Pharaohs in ancient Egypt that were almost forgotten completely from this type of action. Very little remains of the Mayan's history from the Spanish burning of their books. Hitler even tried to give the Jews the same punishment.

My point in all this is that, the man who committed this most evil of acts in Connecticut did it as a cry out to the world to be remembered throughout history with the only way he knew how. So he committed this cowardice act of evil violence because it is the easiest way to be remembered in society. It's becoming a more frequent trend. If a person is thinking of suicide because they have no family or friends who love them but they want to be given the remembrance in death that they were denied in life, they think, "I should go out with a Bang". So what do they do to be remembered for all of time? You all know the answer to that. We need to stop dwelling on these tragic media stories and getting so caught up in the evil acts of the world. The more we talk about evil acts such as these, or air them on the TV or radio, the more it fuels the next evil person to commit something greater or more catastrophic in order to be remembered.
It's just like the outlaws of the wild west used to compete for how many men they killed and brag about it as if it were an accomplishment. Or like the Emperor's of Ancient Rome who were driven to conquer and vanquish more people and countries than the last Emperor to be remembered.

This event was tragic indeed, but I think the world needs to make a conscious effort to show that THIS MAN WILL NOT BE REMEMBERED in any way shape or form. That these types of acts will not be noticed and recorded in history. That these acts will not be broadcast on the media for days and days on end. Whether we think so or not, it all glorifies the horrific act this man committed and creates a greater and longer lasting memory in the minds of people to be carried throughout history.

Did we learn from our mistake in being relaxed with security at a public place of learning? I think so.
Do we need to remember the victims of this event? YES
Do we need to mention the name of this cowardice excuse for a human being or the evil acts of this event ever again? NO

LET HIS MEMORY ROT WITH HIM IN HELL!!!

 

[Jim See]

good read, from real cops to real cops about stopping violence in schools, not just mass shootings but all violence.

http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Lt-Col-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/

 

[Jim See]

Never been in the military, eh Jim See? Good luck :

No, but your attempt at disregarding my valid points is infantile at best. If thats the best you can do I guess this is a one sided debate that I win.

 

[Jim See]

Never been in the military, eh Jim See? Good luck :
Teachers owning guns, and having the experience are two different things. You really think these teachers are trained to use a gun in a stressful life or death situation?

Your comments really don't surprise me, and I doubt they would surprise anyone else. You wouldn't be biased would you Jim? After all, you make your living in the firearms industry don't you? Don't fret Jim, I doubt a high cap magazine ban would affect your income. As I have stated with great resolve, to me, a child's life is worth more to me than my guns. The more people we arm, the more guns we have floating around. A very large portion of those floaters end up in the wrong hands.

Editing past post whats your problem with sticking in a timeline?

Well I will tell you this I have 3 children in Grade school, if an active shooter came thru the building and my child's teacher huddled them in a closet and took position behind her desk, and the shooter breached the door. I would be glad as hell that she could get off a dozen misplaced shots in the general direction of the criminal. weather he she hit or not, she would accomplish a goal of defending herself and her students.

It is obvious your wish is the disarmament of the people, "to save the children" well that my friend is not the answer as much as you wish it to be so.

This has nothing to do with my income or my profession, it has to do with my fundamental beliefs, that a citizenry that looks after one another and themselves, is better than being a subject to the governments will. Many Americans died so that, I could keep my guns and you could express your opinion, even if it is wrong.

 

[Jim See]

Center Shot Rifles. And you aren't biased ???

JRS you don't get it, probably never will, the second amendment is not about you being able to shoot rabbits on the week-end or putting holes in paper with you 100 yard bench gun.

If you think I have a bias because I build custom rifles your a fools fool.

 

[kelbro]

In ancient times, men tried their whole lives to do great things in order to become "immortal" in the records of history. Some were evil, some were just, some were scrupulous, in their deeds to be forever known throughout the ages of history.

The worst punishment for a man, society, or kingdom back then was to be stricken from the records of history. There were Pharaohs in ancient Egypt that were almost forgotten completely from this type of action. Very little remains of the Mayan's history from the Spanish burning of their books. Hitler even tried to give the Jews the same punishment.

My point in all this is that, the man who committed this most evil of acts in Connecticut did it as a cry out to the world to be remembered throughout history with the only way he knew how. So he committed this cowardice act of evil violence because it is the easiest way to be remembered in society. It's becoming a more frequent trend. If a person is thinking of suicide because they have no family or friends who love them but they want to be given the remembrance in death that they were denied in life, they think, "I should go out with a Bang". So what do they do to be remembered for all of time? You all know the answer to that. We need to stop dwelling on these tragic media stories and getting so caught up in the evil acts of the world. The more we talk about evil acts such as these, or air them on the TV or radio, the more it fuels the next evil person to commit something greater or more catastrophic in order to be remembered.
It's just like the outlaws of the wild west used to compete for how many men they killed and brag about it as if it were an accomplishment. Or like the Emperor's of Ancient Rome who were driven to conquer and vanquish more people and countries than the last Emperor to be remembered.

This event was tragic indeed, but I think the world needs to make a conscious effort to show that THIS MAN WILL NOT BE REMEMBERED in any way shape or form. That these types of acts will not be noticed and recorded in history. That these acts will not be broadcast on the media for days and days on end. Whether we think so or not, it all glorifies the horrific act this man committed and creates a greater and longer lasting memory in the minds of people to be carried throughout history.

Did we learn from our mistake in being relaxed with security at a public place of learning? I think so.
Do we need to remember the victims of this event? YES
Do we need to mention the name of this cowardice excuse for a human being or the evil acts of this event ever again? NO

LET HIS MEMORY ROT WITH HIM IN HELL!!!

While I agree 100% with your sentiment, our society has always glamorized criminals and human nature says that it most likely will continue. I don't understand infamy but it must be a very powerful thing. Go back to the old west, the roaring 20s, etc... Which names are the most recognized?

 

[Minesweeper3433]

I would bet every penny I had that not only am I more mobile than any local sheriff or military guard unit within a hundred miles of my home of residence but I could mobilize myself and about 2 dozen other prior service member at the drop of a hat. I would let them take every gun and round of ammunition in my house and would have it back within 24 hours of them taking it. Saying that police can come to any house and start taking weapons is a joke. There are thousands of prior military who love have firearms as a part of their livelihood at home and abroad. All it would take is one of us seeing this happen and everything would change in this country.
Personally I believe that there should be nothing illegal for the civilian that is legal for the gov to have as well. Now I do agree with careful tracking for certain items mainly NFA excluding suppressors but that is another argument. If all you did is require that in the presence of children or mental unstable individuals all firearms must be contained and secured you wouldn't have had this. Buy a safe keep it secured.

SECURITY IS PARAMOUNT. Lock up your firearms if there is even a remote chance of someone getting to them. Do I keep a firearm out of my safes, yes but it is by my side at all times either holstered or in the night stand.

But seriously talking about a police force being able to confiscate weapons is laughable. I have seen more woefully under-trained police officers than I have seen skilled police officers who take pride in their jobs. Do you realize how many policemen/women are on the force solely because the military refused to take them? Of the 15 officers I know 11 of them are on the force because the military wouldn't take them for either not passing a physical examination or they failed at the mental evaluations. The majority of officers today train to minimum standards and nothing more. I don't train to standards I train to win.