Bullet goes to sleep mode

[mike a]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/applied-ballistics-shoot-thru-target-challenge.3861880/

Thanx Matt, that was a great read. Along with double checking paralex I think I'll try much smaller targets at 100. Mike

 

[Ggmac]

My 100 yd aim pt is 1/4 " , my 200 is 1/2 , my 300 is 3/4 .
My scope is 36x fixed 1/8" dot , parrallax is adjusted many times during the day .
Are you changing power during the shoot ?
I know more questions . But we don't have crystal balls . So as much info we can get the better.

 

[mike a]

My 100 yd aim pt is 1/4 " , my 200 is 1/2 , my 300 is 3/4 .
My scope is 36x fixed 1/8" dot , parrallax is adjusted many times during the day .
Are you changing power during the shoot ?
I know more questions . But we don't have crystal balls . So as much info we can get the better.

No not changing power. I have the Varmit lr reticle which is very fine. Been shooting at 1" paster at 100. Will go a lot smaller next time. Do you use a lower power at 100? I use 14x. You think a lower power?

 

[Shynloco]

Mike a,
Personally, I shoot almost exclusively 100 yds (Benchrest) anymore. And I hate to sound simplistic, but in my experiences, the answer to your question boils down to a mis-match of the load you are using and your "particular rifle", even at 100 yds. Each rifle determines which bullet/load shoots best, which is why we handload in search of that perfect load. The load you are shooting apparently works well for your rifle in longer distance shooting, whereas I'm certain the opposite is true for another rifle. And there are so many factors that determine that accuracy, the least of which is the set-up your rifle has. Just my .02 worth.

Alex

 

[Ggmac]

No 36 x at all . Parrallax is very imp , at whatever range I'm shooting I adjust many times a day , and don't forget ,those # on the scope are for reference only . Don't stick it on 100 and expect it to be on .

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Bullet going to sleep?

 

[PigButtons]

I can't find the article now but it was on bullet stabilization at long range. It recounted a story about a WWII shooting match between the US and England troops. First at 100, then 200, and every time the US with the match grade M1's were cleaning up. Then came a 'bet' and the Brits wanted to shoot at 842 yards ( or some number very close to that). The bet was made and the Brits were shooting sub MOA all of a sudden. Something about the rifle - round relationship fell into place at that specific range and they exploited it, at least at one match. Don't hate me, I just remember the article and thought I'd pass it on as anecdotal evidence.

 

[chkunz]

I can't find the article now but it was on bullet stabilization at long range. It recounted a story about a WWII shooting match between the US and England troops. First at 100, then 200, and every time the US with the match grade M1's were cleaning up. Then came a 'bet' and the Brits wanted to shoot at 842 yards ( or some number very close to that). The bet was made and the Brits were shooting sub MOA all of a sudden. Something about the rifle - round relationship fell into place at that specific range and they exploited it, at least at one match. Don't hate me, I just remember the article and thought I'd pass it on as anecdotal evidence.

The phenomenon you refer to has been reported on in various places and has to do with the Lee-Enfield rifles two piece stock that were thought to have a compensating effect on trajectory for variations in muzzle velocity. One reference that I have for this theory is by Creighton Audette in the notes from the 1980 NRA National Championship High Power match Rifle Clinic.

 

[Mozella]

It's BS. Here is all you need to know:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/applied-ballistics-shoot-thru-target-challenge.3861880/

 

[3Ackleys]

put a target at 100 and a target at 300 and shoot. comparing 2 groups shot separately, wwII stories and anecdotal evidence are all imaginary science.

 

[ireload2]

That is the common and total misunderstanding of the phenomenon.
All the bullet has to do is to stop precessing. The bullets do not have to turn anywhere. They merely quit diverging as much.
I have a rifle that has always done that and no others do it.

Bullets after making their relatively larger deviation at short range would be required to turn inward, bullets in the right of the group turning to the left and bullets on the left turning to the right, low right bullets turning to the upper left, etc. After considering this, the reader will know weather he is prepared to believe it."

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Yall should take bryan litz's challenge.

 

[Homerange]

A buddy told me of his experiences with this phenomenon with a custom 22/284 he built for long range rabbit work some years back.......he didn't persevere with it. Past 300 yds he said it was fine when the projectiles went to "sleep" but under that precision accuracy was disappointing. I often wonder if he still had it today with the greater projectile options now available if he'd have got it sorted.

 

[hogpatrol]

I guess these were wide awake. Maybe they'll fall asleep further on down the range.

 

[DaveTooley]

Dusty,

The 22PPC barrel was on BR gun I owned. It shot the same size groups at 100 as it did at 200. I sold it and the new owner confirmed that. How many BR shooters look at their bullet holes at 200 and when they have clean edged, paper punch style holes they know that barrel is going to more consistent and forgiving in the wind.

Dopplar has very high resolution and capability to measure the bullets flight every 3 yards I believe. That's a lot of data points. In 25 or even 100 yard increments it's not difficult to see changes in the flight patterns of certain bullets. Now seeing what's happening with the data and shooting the difference is two completely different things.

 

[jsthntn247]

The wind makes my bullets fall asleep

 

[Ned Ludd]

You guys are making this way more difficult than it needs to be. All you need to do is look carefully at your bullets before loading a round into the chamber. Whether they're awake or asleep should be obvious:

 

[Changeling]

I'm getting a little sleepy myself

 

[chkunz]

That is the common and total misunderstanding of the phenomenon.
All the bullet has to do is to stop precessing. The bullets do not have to turn anywhere. They merely quit diverging as much.
I have a rifle that has always done that and no others do it.

To "merely quit diverging as much" means that they would have to change direction. Per Newton's laws of motion they must be acted on by some force to do that.

 

[Steve Blair]

This phenomenon needs an acronym. I suggest Dynamically Orthogonal Gyroscopically Convergent Radially Accelerated Projectiles.

UPDATE

Responding to those questioning my acronym proposal:

It is true, despite being an avid shooter of many years and having a Mastiff in the family, I have not closely observed DOGCRAP. When opportunities have arisen, I have largely kept DOGCRAP at arm's length, perhaps arising from an aversion to learning more than I need to know. This does not mean that it does not exist, many people have indicated direct observation, even contact, with DOGCRAP. Any one wanting to know more about this important phenomenon should undertake very detailed observation of DOGCRAP at every opportunity. The more closely DOGCRAP is observed, the more we will learn. DOGCRAP is just the manifestation of profound forces, the end result of which is DOGCRAP. It is the underlying forces producing DOGCRAP that we need to understand. So, Godspeed to those treading the DOGCRAP knowledge path. I hope your journey ends with a fuller, deeper understanding of that phenomenon we know as DOGCRAP.