best die LOCKING ring

[Uncle Ed]

Whatever you use, put one of these labels on it. .002" die height change per mark. Makes die adjustments for shoulder bump easy and precise.
View attachment 1084934

Bart B.

In the photo you posted I can see that slip joint pliers were used to grab the lock ring and chew up its surface.
(Go Navy)

You need the pliers below we were issued in the Air Force. That way your lock rings will not look like a herd of beavers were chewing on them. Aim High Air Force

Crescent 52910N A-N Connector Pliers, 10-Inch (with "soft" rubber jaws)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00170RES8/?tag=accuratescom-20

The above message was brought to you by the "Society for the prevention of cruelty to lock rings"

 

[Bart B.]

Bart B.

In the photo you posted I can see that slip joint pliers were used to grab the lock ring and chew up its surface.
(Go Navy)

You need the pliers below we were issued in the Air Force. That way your lock rings will not look like a herd of beavers were chewing on them. Aim High Air Force

Crescent 52910N A-N Connector Pliers, 10-Inch (with "soft" rubber jaws)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00170RES8/?tag=accuratescom-20

The above message was brought to you by the "Society for the prevention of cruelty to lock rings"

Another remark from someone ignorant of what the lock ring to press mating surfaces look and fit like that cannot be seen. If you were Superman, you could see through the ring to their mating surfaces that count, not the tool's teeth marks on the ring's unimportant gripping edges. Instead, you chose to reveal your short comings comprehending what's important in mechanical fit for good alignment and functionality. Besides, several dozen grip points are better than 6 on a hex nut.

Use a giant pair to twist your head into thinking about what's important. Some ex USAF folks can do that. I think you can, too.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I like to use my hands on a lock ring. Ive never needed pliers or a wrench. And believe it or not most of the top benchrest competitors purposely put slack in their press’s ram and let the die do the work. You dont want a press influencing the case in any way that includes the die touching the shellholder (which will never be square). The ONLY thing a press should do is push the case in and pull it out.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I like to use my hands on a lock ring. Ive never needed pliers or a wrench. And believe it or not most of the top benchrest competitors purposely put slack in their press’s ram and let the die do the work. You dont want a press influencing the case in any way that includes the die touching the shellholder (which will never be square). The ONLY thing a press should do is push the case in and pull it out.

Who is right, the dies instructions that tell you to screw the die down until it contacts the shell holder and the 1/8 to a 1/4 turn more. Or Redding making competition shell holders that contact the shell holder also, vs people telling you the die should not touch the shell holder

Have runout test been done on the base of the dies to see if they are square.

What I'm getting at is all the conflicting information you get starting from the dies instructions to advice given in forums.

RCBS press and dies tell you to make hard contact with the shell holder with press cam over and a Co-ax press has a floating die and floating case jaws that do not touch the base of the die. (I think because I do not have a Co-Ax press)

The various thickness shimming washers you put under the dies lock ring raises the die off the shell holder. But Redding makes competition shell holders that do contact the shell holder.

Notice below Redding states you are not squaring the die if the die does not contact the shell holder.

The advice given in forums is like watching the old TV show "Who do you trust".

 

[savagedasher]

My dies touch the float shell holder that is what it has to do with a coax
None of my dies are short enough not to
As far as the dies being straight on the bottom Doesn’t matter when one part of the die. Touch no press will push the die any closer

 

[Uncle Ed]

My dies touch the float shell holder that is what it has to do with a coax
None of my dies are short enough not to
As far as the dies being straight on the bottom Doesn’t matter when one part of the die. Touch no press will push the die any closer

Why do they then sell a attachment to use a standard shell holder like a RCBS shell holder. Is the difference light contact and hard contact.

Again I have a RCBS Rockchucker press and set the dies up per the RCBS dies instructions with hard contact and press cam over. I then use the Redding competition shell holder to adjust the amount of shoulder bump and never touch the die.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Another remark from someone ignorant of what the lock ring to press mating surfaces look and fit like that cannot be seen. If you were Superman, you could see through the ring to their mating surfaces that count, not the tool's teeth marks on the ring's unimportant gripping edges. Instead, you chose to reveal your short comings comprehending what's important in mechanical fit for good alignment and functionality. Besides, several dozen grip points are better than 6 on a hex nut.

Use a giant pair to twist your head into thinking about what's important. Some ex USAF folks can do that. I think you can, too.

Have you tried wrapping the dies lock ring with some cloth from a pair of Duluth Fire Hose Pants to protect the lock ring from your slip joint pliers.

Sorry about the Beaver cutting you off below the knees.

Aim High Air Force.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Who is right, the dies instructions that tell you to screw the die down until it contacts the shell holder and the 1/8 to a 1/4 turn more. Or Redding making competition shell holders that contact the shell holder also, vs people telling you the die should not touch the shell holder

Have runout test been done on the base of the dies to see if they are square.

What I'm getting at is all the conflicting information you get starting from the dies instructions to advice given in forums.

RCBS press and dies tell you to make hard contact with the shell holder with press cam over and a Co-ax press has a floating die and floating case jaws that do not touch the base of the die. (I think because I do not have a Co-Ax press)

The various thickness shimming washers you put under the dies lock ring raises the die off the shell holder. But Redding makes competition shell holders that do contact the shell holder.

Notice below Redding states you are not squaring the die if the die does not contact the shell holder.

The advice given in forums is like watching the old TV show "Who do you trust".

Redding and other’s instructions are for novices that it doesnt matter to if they push their shoulders back .015 or .030 as long as it goes off in their guns. No accuracy minded shooter that i know of just blindly screws their dies down to the shellholder and starts loading. Custom dies are shorter for a reason. That reason is so that the press or shellholder does not influence the case going into the die such that it will if you touch the shellholder. You have to remember the audience they have with die instructions. There has to be a fail safe built in so that the average reloader doesnt push their shoulder back .100

 

[savagedasher]

Why do they then sell a attachment to use a standard shell holder like a RCBS shell holder. Is the difference light contact and hard contact.

Again I have a RCBS Rockchucker press and set the dies up per the RCBS dies instructions with hard contact and press cam over. I then use the Redding competition shell holder to adjust the amount of shoulder bump and never touch the die.

Cam over is where the maximum pressure is applied
You adjust the cam over and the hard contact is all the same The reason some use the Redding shell holder is because the die is too long to push the case shoulder back enough
Shorten the die

 

[Bart B.]

Have you tried wrapping the dies lock ring with some cloth from a pair of Duluth Fire Hose Pants to protect the lock ring from your slip joint pliers.

Sorry about the Beaver cutting you off below the knees.

I care about my lock rings looks as much as I care about your remarks about anything regarding me.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I care about my lock rings looks as much as I care about your remarks about anything regarding me.

Dear Bart B.

Look at the bright side and the information give to the readers of this posting.

Below are the pliers I have had and used since 1974 to use on my dies round lock rings. The hard rubber inserts have been replace several times and angry beavers or slip joint pliers have never marred any of my lock rings. You can also see my favorite type die a Forster full length benchrest die.

I guess they never showed you any Primitive Pete films in the Navy about hammer and chisel shade tree mechanics.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Cam over is where the maximum pressure is applied
You adjust the cam over and the hard contact is all the same The reason some use the Redding shell holder is because the die is too long to push the case shoulder back enough
Shorten the die

The reason people use the Redding competition shell holders is because these shell holders do not push the case as far into the die as a standard shell holder for "less" shoulder bump.

The reason people lap the top of the shell holder is to push the case further into the die for more shoulder bump.

 

[Bart B.]

Look at the bright side and the information give to the readers of this posting.

I can hear them now applauding another internet forum bully cheering him on as he tries to hide his inadequacies and incompetence.

 

[savagedasher]

The reason people use the Redding competition shell holders is because these shell holders do not push the case as far into the die as a standard shell holder for "less" shoulder bump.

The reason people lap the top of the shell holder is to push the case further into the die for more shoulder bump.

 

[savagedasher]

The advertising says plus or minus
Dot use the so I assume what the advertisement say is s fact

 

[Bart B.]

The reason people use the Redding competition shell holders is because these shell holders do not push the case as far into the die as a standard shell holder for "less" shoulder bump.

The reason people lap the top of the shell holder is to push the case further into the die for more shoulder bump.

Such is life when most die's headspace is about .005" less than a GO gauge.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Redding and other’s instructions are for novices that it doesnt matter to if they push their shoulders back .015 or .030 as long as it goes off in their guns. No accuracy minded shooter that i know of just blindly screws their dies down to the shellholder and starts loading. Custom dies are shorter for a reason. That reason is so that the press or shellholder does not influence the case going into the die such that it will if you touch the shellholder. You have to remember the audience they have with die instructions. There has to be a fail safe built in so that the average reloader doesnt push their shoulder back .100

I'm 68 years old and have been reloading for over 47 years and also know that chambers and dies vary in size. And the RCBS die instructions are to insure the full length resized case will chamber in any rifle regardless of the head clearance.

So to keep this simple Redding made the five competition shell holders so the die could contact the shell holder and square the die.

And we are talking about the best lock rings, so I guess you can say my question is how do you know the die is square and not tilted in the press threads if it is not touching the shell holder. And how do you set the die and its lock ring up to make sure the die is square.

Again I'm going back to the 1974 Speer manual and the chapter on setting up your dies. Do you shim the die with a feeler gauge between the die and shell holder to square the die and then remove the feeler gauge.

Bottom line how do you setup your dies to remove the slop in the threads with dies that do not touch the shell holder. And how do you know when you tighten down the lock ring that the die is square and not tilted.

This posting boils down to your favorite lock ring and how you like to secure the lock ring. But I'm asking regardless of the type lock ring what do do to ensure the die is centered and square in the press "before" securing the lock ring.

 

[savagedasher]

I'm 68 years old and have been reloading for over 47 years and also know that chambers and dies vary in size. And the RCBS die instructions are to insure the full length resized case will chamber in any rifle regardless of the head clearance.

So to keep this simple Redding made the five competition shell holders so the die could contact the shell holder and square the die.

And we are talking about the best lock rings, so I guess you can say my question is how do you know the die is square and not tilted in the press threads if it is not touching the shell holder. And how do you set the die and its lock ring up to make sure the die is square.

Again I'm going back to the 1974 Speer manual and the chapter on setting up your dies. Do you shim the die with a feeler gauge between the die and shell holder to square the die and then remove the feeler gauge.

Bottom line how do you setup your dies to remove the slop in the threads with dies that do not touch the shell holder. And how do you know when you tighten down the lock ring that the die is square and not tilted.

This posting boils down to your favorite lock ring and how you like to secure the lock ring. But I'm asking regardless of the type lock ring what do do to ensure the die is centered and square in the press "before" securing the lock ring.

79 here and have been loading almost as long as you are old
Built race engine fo over 40 years an the is no way when metal makes hard contact together is anything beyond that point is going to change

 

[Uncle Ed]

79 here and have been loading almost as long as you are old
Built race engine fo over 40 years an the is no way when metal makes hard contact together is anything beyond that point is going to change

I find it hard to believe you were a expert reloader when you were eleven years old. And engine main bearings float on a film of oil and you progressively torque the heads to ensure they are flat and square.

The link below at this website tells you a rubber o-ring "May" reduce runout. Meaning if the lock ring is not secured square with the die it can induce runout. So if you do not use o-rings how do you know "YOUR" lock ring is square with your die when it is secured.

O-Rings on Dies May Reduce Run-Out
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/o-rings-on-dies-may-reduce-run-out/

 

[Uncle Ed]

Such is life when most die's headspace is about .005" less than a GO gauge.

Bart B.

Stare at the image below until it is imprinted forever in your mind. How do expect anyone to believe a word you post when you abuse your reloading equipment with slip joint pliers.

Below the cheaper eBay Chinese rubber jawed pliers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRESCENT-5...962417?hash=item2cde3ae3f1:g:RUAAAOSwNp1b2H8d