If the OP is still torn, if you buy a 6BR and then upgrade (you will) you can sell the 6BR much easier than a 6ppc. 200 yards is the distance that you presently are most interested in, that too may change. The 6BR is the appliance that just plain works!
Best 200yd cartridge - advice needed
- Thread starter bichettereds
- Start date
Hi Jim. It's certainly true that the 6PPC has never (as far as I know) held the single group record at 100yd (though it does at 200 and 300). The 6PPC is not the top short-range IBS score shooting cartridge, either. But is there any group aggregate record in 100-300 yard BR that's not held by the 6PPC? I think that most competitors would agree that grand aggs and multi-gun wins at the big shoots are the pinnacles of achievement in the sport, and the 6PPC is holding all the cards there (100-300yd). You could argue that it's the sporter rule (6mm or larger) that paved the way for the 6PPC, and that maybe a well-tuned 22 would be the way to go in LV and HV, or a big-recoiling wind-cheater could be tops in unlimited/heavy bench. But that's not the way things have worked out.
Is there a herd mentality on the 6PPC? Sure, but it's a rational strategy when all of the top shooters are using one. If you clean house with a 6BR improved at a big short-range tournament, the herd might follow. I'd love to see that happen!
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
The ppc isn't magic. Don't expect to be able to pull the trigger any old time and all bullets find their way into the same hole
If you aren't prepared to load at the range and possible adjust Powder thru the course of the day
Just for fun shooting go with a 6br 12 twist
Hi Tim. Post another photo of that 4+1 heartbreaker you shot at 200 as proof that there's no magic!
That is it exactly, i have a 12 twist waiting on Barts 80 gr. bullets and a reamer from JGS. I want to see if the 80.s can beat his 103's and 105's and i will tell you this it will be tuff to beat them 105's.
Toby, It is nice to see Bart thinking outside the box with the Grinch, and the 80 gr. bullets. This improved is amazing 600 yd chambering shoot so small at 100, never throw a shot and be so easy to load for and easy to form. I did very well with the Dasher, but this so much easier and very accurate. ........ jim
Toby, It is nice to see Bart thinking outside the box with the Grinch, and the 80 gr. bullets. This improved is amazing 600 yd chambering shoot so small at 100, never throw a shot and be so easy to load for and easy to form. I did very well with the Dasher, but this so much easier and very accurate. ........ jim
Hi Jim. I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to further developments.
P.S. Post a few targets on Bart's Dasher 100-yd challenge thread!
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
Hi Jim. I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to further developments.
P.S. Post a few targets on Bart's Dasher 100-yd challenge thread!
Toby, I don't do that stuff, send me your cell # and i can send the last three i think, i toss the targets. A little late in life to learn the computer stuff. I'm more concerned with my loss of sight than anything...... jim
My local club used to have a monthly group shoot at 300yd (4 targets, 10 shots each), with a yearly trophy and some side betting. On this particular day, my first 9 shots were well under the club record. You know the rest.
Sometimes, being able to see your bullet holes is NOT helpful.
Dan Hall
Gold $$ Contributor
bichettereds, you started looking for an accurate 200 yard cartridge. The answer to that is the 6ppc, no question. Then you added a possible need for longer range accuracy, 600 & 1000 yards. Your idea of a 6BR would be better, though not as good as many others. You would greatly benefit yourself by focusing. A used 6PPC bench rest rifle can be bought for less than $1500 that would shoot tiny groups out to 200-300 yards. From there you could screw on a new barrel and shoot 6 Dasher for your long range work. So focus, you'll be shooting better . Good luck.
you can shoot anything you want for fun. But records kept by the IBS and NBRSA since 1975 suggest that bringing anything but a 6PPC to a registered match is greatly akin to wetting your pants wearing black levis. It will leave you with a warm, kinda fuzzy feeling, but no one else will see much.
bichettereds
Silver $$ Contributor
I believe that one sold quick. Killer deal.
I'm going to focus on a 200yd rifle, but I'm not ruling out a BR just yet. It would be nice to just get a slow twist barrel for the lighter bullets at 200 and if I go to 300-600, swap barrels and shoot the heavies, without having to have a different set of dies. Not having to fire form brass appeals to me as well.
I'm definetly going to start looking at used custom benchrest rifles though... I just need to learn more about them to figure out what I want. Gotta find a good local smith as well.
If I find one in PPC with a high round count on the barrel I might just use that as a fire forming barrel, get some practice with it before replacing the barrel and stick with PPC.
I have a brand new SIII 10-50x60 ready to be mounted. My goal is to stay as far below $2000 as possible, for the rifle, all the dies (Wilson micrometer seater, havent decided on the others) and a good amount of brass and bullets to start out with.
The reason 6PPCs are rarely shot in score matches has to do with best edge scoring, not accuracy. When you are giving up the difference between a .243 bullet and a .308 you are usually giving up the margin of winning. Although UBR is a much smaller sample segment, the caliber nuetral targets have meant that the majority of competitors have moved away from the 30BR due to the recoil and the fact that there is no advantage. The .222 can still be a winner @ 100, but it won't keep up at 200. The 6PPC is the consistent 100-300 best choice. In short range you either shoot one or get beat by one. Almost all the UBR records going into our 7th year are held by 6PPCs.
Why would a short range shooter build a rifle that he knows going in is in a chambering that is 2nd best? As has been said, beyond 300 it's a whole new ballgame.
Rick
Rick, true to a point, first the PPC is some what fussy and needs to be tuned through out the day. 30's seem less fussy and are are being pre loaded. Accuracy wise the 30 is as accurate they will tell you, and the 30 shot the smallest group ever shot in short range. Again, when the wind starts to pick up both fall apart, funny they try to shoot 300 yd match are held in the mornings, they know their weakness ...... jim
It's funny the difference in perception between shooting disciplines. In short range small group of the match is seen as kind of a fluke or a newbie award! It's often won by new shooters who tune when there isn't a breath of air AKA the New Guy! Consistency is considered King. Which is the aggregate in short range.
That one 30 caliber group comes up a bunch. To me it's just like the other small group records, "a fluke" or a "happy coincidence!" However all other NBRSA group and agg records are held by the 6PPC. I'm pretty sure all IBS group records are held by the 6PPC.
As for all the 300 yard group matches being held in the morning for ease of conditions. Thats not the case at the 300 yard matches I've gone to. You shoot for two days and 4 aggregates. So you're going to get one in one in the morning and one in the afternoon. Score matches may be different.
I've set two world records at 300 yards. This one in the Light Varmit and also the 300 yard 10 shot 5 group Unlimited. Both of course with the PPC. I don't see a Dasher or a 30 BR beating that any time soon.
Bart
Very true , but i said in the windy conditions. When i stopped at Fairchance a few years ago 1.5" was the about what they were shooting at 300 but with any agg. it is the luck of the draw to get a good relay. With good conditions they are tuff to beat, and with what you are doing with the 80 gr. will make a huge difference and BTW. when i checked them they were some of the finest bullets i ever saw ....... jim
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It's funny the difference in perception between shooting disciplines. In short range small group of the match is seen as kind of a fluke or a newbie award! It's often won by new shooters who tune when there isn't a breath of air AKA the New Guy! Consistency is considered King. Which is the aggregate in short range.
That one 30 caliber group comes up a bunch. To me it's just like the other small group records, "a fluke" or a "happy coincidence!" However all other NBRSA group and agg records are held by the 6PPC. I'm pretty sure all IBS group records are held by the 6PPC.
As for all the 300 yard group matches being held in the morning for ease of conditions. Thats not the case at the 300 yard matches I've gone to. You shoot for two days and 4 aggregates. So you're going to get one in one in the morning and one in the afternoon. Score matches may be different.
I've set two world records at 300 yards. This one in the Light Varmit and also the 300 yard 10 shot 5 group Unlimited. Both of course with the PPC. I don't see a Dasher or a 30 BR beating that any time soon.
Bart
with results like that what are you expecting from the 80gr 6 Grinch ??
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
As far as the ppc being fussy and load needing to be adjusted thru the day. That's true. But I've found out the more I practice shooting in the wind the less I seem to be fussing with the powder charge
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