Best 200yd cartridge - advice needed

[bichettereds]

Now you're going to make comprimises.

So I'm better off going with a 1:14/1:12?

 

[CJ6]

You started out wanting a top 100-200 yd cartridge (IMHO that's the 6 PPC). You can't expect the same to go 1000 yds with a short range set-up. Now if you're going with the 6BR (not optimal for Short range but it will shoot good) Use 13-14 twist bbls and 65-68 gr. bullets. If you go to 1 K use 7-8 twist with 105-110 gr bullets and think about a BRDX or Dasher, both made from 6BR brass.

 

[johara1]

A PPC. is very accurate under very controlled conditions. You will need to invest a ton of money in wind flags and stands plus the loading equipment to shoot little bullets good. I have found the 105 class bullet out of a 8 twist BR imp. makes it a little easier to shoot small with a few flags and they get pushed around less. You will see groups posted that are very small but under ideal conditions but go out in the real world in a 10 to 15 switching condition see the group sizes. They are not posted...... This i will tell the BR imp. with sorted 105 bullets will out shoot the PPC. i have to the point of shooting the smallest group i ever shot.027. In the wind at 300 yds. these super accurate PPC and 30 brs. have their issues and they sure can't compete at 600 and a 1000 but the old 6br can with heavy bullets so why even think about shooting light bullets ? Use the 105 and once you set up it easy to load for....... jim

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

You will see groups posted that are very small but under ideal conditions but go out in the real world in a 10 to 15 switching condition see the group sizes. They are not posted

Sure they are. They are posted after every tournament, rain, shine, wind, whatever. Examples from the Super Shoot:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?95179-Super-Shoot-Results
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?92672-2015-Super-Shoot-Results-Word-and-PDF
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?89679-2014-Super-Shoot-Results
...

Here are the 2-gun results (LV + HV, 100 + 200, average of 20 5-shot groups with every group shot in a 7-minute time limit).

2016 FISS 2-gun grand agg 0.2378 (and shooting 0.010 bigger than that would put you in 7th place)
2015 FISS 2-gun grand agg 0.2563 (and shooting 0.010 bigger than that would put you in 4th place)
2014 FISS 2-gun grand agg 0.2164 (Tony Boyer was >0.020 ahead of the rest of the field)

All shot with 6PPCs because ... that is what wins at 100-200.

 

[AckleymanII]

Toby, you can leade them to water, but you can't make them drink!

A 6 BR with a 12 twist shooting 68's would be fun for the guy to shoot at 200, and for the fun factor, add a muzzle break.

 

[johara1]

You proved my point, area full of flags and very controlled conditions. Now take those same guys and guns and move them to 600 and check the results........ The 6br with 105's will shine. No flags, no going back to the sighter and can't see the holes.......... From 100 to 1000 the BR and imp. will work and the PPC will only shoot up close.......... jim

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

You proved my point, area full of flags and very controlled conditions. Now take those same guys and guns and move them to 600 and check the results........ The 6br with 105's will shine. No flags, no going back to the sighter and can't see the holes.......... From 100 to 1000 the BR and imp. will work and the PPC will only shoot up close.......... jim

The title of this thread is "Best 200yd cartridge ...".

If the OP wants to shoot at 100-1000yd, and not be optimized for any of the distances, there are many choices. If he's serious about the title of his thread, there's only one choice.

 

[johara1]

So if I decide to go to 6BR... What chamber, twist, bullet weight would you recommend for 200yds? Would a 1:8 twist with heavier bullets do just as good at 200yds as a slower twist, lighter bullet? I may have the opportunity to shoot at 600-1000yds but that would be rare (once or twice a year).

I just shot a 5 target agg.@ 100 yds with my 6 br imp. It was .027, .050, .084, .132 and .150 with Barts 105 and 32.2 gr rl-15 and a cci 450 And old Brux barrel 7.83 twist set back By Dave Short. Don't ever get it in your head a BR. won't shoot small with 105's....... jim

 

[johara1]

Toby, this barrel will out shoot my PPC. These last groups were in a 14 to 17 mph. wind........ jim

 

[bichettereds]

The title of this thread is "Best 200yd cartridge ...".

If the OP wants to shoot at 100-1000yd, and not be optimized for any of the distances, there are many choices. If he's serious about the title of his thread, there's only one choice.

Thanks for everyones advice. I will be shooting at 100-200 95% of the time. Im still torn between 6BR and 6PPC. The 6BR seems like less work (brass prep), and more versatile, but if I go with a slower twist for shorter distance than I lose that versatility and I should probably just go with 6PPC. To be honest, Im no where close to being able to tell the difference probably. The question of what is the best 200yd cartridge has been answered I believe. I just need to to decide what cartridge is best for me...

I've got about $1500 to spend on a rifle. That leaves me enough for reloading dies and components. The Savage seemed like a good option... if I go with a used custom I will have to do a LOT more reading up.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I just shot a 5 target agg.@ 100 yds with my 6 br imp. It was .027, .050, .084, .132 and .150 with Barts 105 and 32.2 gr rl-15 and a cci 450 And old Brux barrel 7.83 twist set back By Dave Short. Don't ever get it in your head a BR. won't shoot small with 105's....... jim

Hi Jim. I'm not saying that a BR case with high-BC bullets won't shoot. But in a 10.5-pound rifle with 32+gr of powder and 105gr bullets, over a 100-200 grand agg it isn't likely to shoot smaller than a 6PPC, which has a little more than half the recoil of a Dasher.

Of course, the way to prove your point is to take a BR case to the Super Shoot and walk away with the 2-, 3-, and 4-gun, as well as a boatload of cash. Maybe you have the barrel that can do it.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

To be honest, Im no where close to being able to tell the difference probably.

Probably the smartest thing said in this thread so far. I'm in the same boat as you.

P.S. I've got nothing against the BR case. My pronghorn/mule deer rifle is a 6BR. It won't win any 300-yard benchrest matches, but it shoots pretty well at that range from a bipod, and has accounted for several freezers full of meat. And now I'm putting together a 22BR for a coyote calling rifle. My 30BR is probably the easiest-to-tune rifle I've ever had (charge/seating depth test below; 3-shot groups, 100 yards).

 

[BartsBullets]

Thanks for everyones advice. I will be shooting at 100-200 95% of the time. Im still torn between 6BR and 6PPC. The 6BR seems like less work (brass prep), and more versatile, but if I go with a slower twist for shorter distance than I lose that versatility and I should probably just go with 6PPC. To be honest, Im no where close to being able to tell the difference probably. The question of what is the best 200yd cartridge has been answered I believe. I just need to to decide what cartridge is best for me...

I've got about $1500 to spend on a rifle. That leaves me enough for reloading dies and components. The Savage seemed like a good option... if I go with a used custom I will have to do a LOT more reading up.

One of the costs you may want to consider is that of the bullets themselves. Good custom bullets in the 105 boattail range are about 550.00 per 1000. While custom 68 gr custom bullets are 270.00 to 280.00 per 1000. Pretty big difference especially if you like to shoot a lot.

Bart

 

[swd]

Here's they way I would look at it. If you decide to go with a Savage, keep it simple and go with a 12" twist 6BR. You can shoot everything from 80's on down. Chances it will shoot a lot better than you can for a quite a while and you'll learn a ton with it. When your done with it you'll know if you want a custom in PPC or if you want to move from a PB gun to mid or long range gun.

 

[bichettereds]

Here's they way I would look at it. If you decide to go with a Savage, keep it simple and go with a 12" twist 6BR. You can shoot everything from 80's on down. Chances it will shoot a lot better than you can for a quite a while and you'll learn a ton with it. When your done with it you'll know if you want a custom in PPC or if you want to move from a PB gun to mid or long range gun.

What would be the best configuration for me on chamber/twist if I were to go that route? I see NSS has Criterion and Shilen barrels. Do you guys have a preference for one or the other? 12 twist or 14 twist? Do I choose what bullet I want and have them chamber it to fit that (no free bore)? Would the 68gr Berger be a good choice at 200?

 

[johara1]

Hi Jim. I'm not saying that a BR case with high-BC bullets won't shoot. But in a 10.5-pound rifle with 32+gr of powder and 105gr bullets, over a 100-200 grand agg it isn't likely to shoot smaller than a 6PPC, which has a little more than half the recoil of a Dasher.

Of course, the way to prove your point is to take a BR case to the Super Shoot and walk away with the 2-, 3-, and 4-gun, as well as a boatload of cash. Maybe you have the barrel that can do it.

Toby, that is one match you keep hammering on, Agg. are a lot of luck you draw a good relay you look good and where you are on the range means a lot also. They shoot 30 BR in a light gun and mine is a light gun with a 36 power scope (Valdada) And why don't you reference 300? The guy wants to shoot a 600 or a 1000 yd. match a couple times a year so what are you doing with the PPC?. jim

 

[ttfreestyle]

One gun, 2 barrels. One 13 to 14 twist shooting cheaper light bullets for short work and one 8 twist for longer. My experience is when you compromise you won't get the best of either. My 2 cents. Good luck

 

[JDMock]

I shoot both a 6mm Dasher and a 6PPC. For 200 yards, the PPC is the king. For 300, it is a toss-up and further out, the Dasher rules. I have seen too many tiny groups shot at 200 yards with the PPC to doubt its accuracy. Below is a picture of a 5-shot group by Tom Libby at St. Louis. Good shooting....James

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Toby, that is one match you keep hammering on

You mean the Super Shoot? That's because it draws about 300 of the world's best benchrest shooters, so finishing at the top really means something.

Agg. are a lot of luck you draw a good relay you look good and where you are on the range means a lot also.

And yet the same small number of shooters end up at the top of the heap year after year at ranges around the country. Must be more than luck, eh?

Top 10 BR Hall of Fame points (as of 2015):

TONY BOYER 169
LESTER BRUNO 48
ALAN EUBER 47
GARY OCOCK 34
GENE BUKYS 33
WAYNE CAMPBELL 30
ED WATSON (D) 28
DON GERACI 26
RON HOEHN 26
TOM GILLMAN (D) 25

They shoot 30 BR in a light gun and mine is a light gun with a 36 power scope (Valdada)

Light gun (17.5#) or light varmint (10.5#)?

And why don't you reference 300?

OK. The 6PPC holds all of the group aggregate benchrest records at 300, too.

The guy wants to shoot a 600 or a 1000 yd. match a couple times a year so what are you doing with the PPC?. jim

He isn't shooting any matches at any distance. He's just shooting informally. Sure, if he ever shoots at 1000 a 68gr bullet from a 6PPC isn't going to work well -- it goes subsonic by 800 yards or so. But if he really wants "the best 200yd cartridge," it's a 6PPC. He could shoot informally 100-1000 with the .223, for which he already has dies and components.

 

[johara1]

I don't own a long range gun any more, 10.5 to 13.5 is where i'm at now. If it is so accurate why couldn't it beat a 222 for a single group record and everybody shoots them? It was beat by a .30. The sun doesn't rise and set on a PPC. and you sure don't see them in score anymore do you just 30's. The PPC is hard to keep in tune and the agg. i shot was all pre loaded for 65 degrees last fall and it still shoots at 40 degrees with a .089 agg. and it will hammer at 600yds. where the PPC. is not competitive.
Funny i can think back to a National at Fairchance and the PPC was shoot some rather large groups at 300 because it was windy, some were very close to what we shoot at 1000, heck when the conditions are good the Dasher can shoot in the .3's at 600...... jim