Barrel Cleaning: A Discovery

[Gargoyle]

Nylon brush. 30 passes w/CLP. NO BLACK! Patches CLP color only. Brush cleaned immediately after scrubbing with full 12ga patch and nothing but CLP!

A barrel:
Nitride bore:

 

[Andy Work]

I guess there is something to the nylon brushes.

 

[Gargoyle]

I guess there is something to the nylon brushes.

Yup. Bronze brushes give a false dirty barrel read.

 

[sdean]

I guess there is something to the nylon brushes.

Or nylon brushes don't touch carbon.

 

[Dave M.]

I did this with a 416R stainless, 416R stainless nitrided, and a 4150 CMV. Same results each one. Hundreds of patches used. All will show black after brushing.

Two of the barrels were cleaned with free all soaked overnight & flitzed. Free All is too strong of smell to use indoors, or to even use at all. It didn't seem to free anymore carbon than the Hoppes and Wipe-Out foam cleaners.

I’ve never found Free All to be too strong to use inside. Are you using the aerosol or liquid version?
I would say if your barrel is truly clean then something on/in your rod/jags/brush is causing the black you are seeing. I’m still not convinced the barrel is 100% clean. Can you post some barrel pics?
Dave

 

[Dave M.]

I used to have this issue all the time. I fixed it by pulling the bore guide after scrubbing and cleaning out the chamber. I find solvent/crud collects at the front of the bore guide and is often picked up by the patch. Usually a couple patches wrapped on a large nylon brush, wetted with alcohol, is all it takes to clean the chamber.

I went from never getting all the dark stuff off the bore patches to taking only 2-3 to get a clean patch.

There are several good tools out there to clean the chamber area, especially the lug recess area. Look at the PMA website for their selection of action cleaning tools.

 

[DShortt]

Must be some awful soft steel!

Same as any other barrel. Take a polished piece of steel l. Rub some bronze wool on it. Notice it's not shiny anymore. Same thing. I'm not going to change anyone's mind nor am I trying to. The point was a bronze brush will remove enough material that a pristine patch won't be pristine if you brush a bore and patch it. That's all.

 

[K22]

Took all 3 barrels and let them soak in Wipe-out with accelerator overnight. Patches came out with Wipeout with Accelerator. At this point, with the amount of cleaner and work I've done, I would use these barrels as a straw to drink from a cup. 10 passes with a new bronze brush and CLP....wait for it....BLACK.

I challenge anyone with a barrel they think is completely clean to run a bronze brush with any solvent/oil of choice and see what happens. I know.

See the procedure I posted in this thread. The final dry patches come out as white a snow. More importantly, my rifles shots to point of aim on the first shot.

Personally, the only testing I see value in is that which correlates and validates an assertion to performance results. Anything else, at least to me is theoretical.

 

[DShortt]

Nylon brush. 30 passes w/CLP. NO BLACK! Patches CLP color only. Brush cleaned immediately after scrubbing with full 12ga patch and nothing but CLP!
View attachment 1391366
A barrel:
View attachment 1391367 Nitride bore:
View attachment 1391369
View attachment 1391370

I see carbon all along the edges of those grooves. Enough to worry about? I don't think so.

 

[K22]

It's amazing that I've been able to shoot 1,954 ground hogs to date (since 1999) with a rifle cleaned with a bronze brush! Guess I'm just lucky.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist so chastise me, I've earned it.

 

[David Milisock]

It's amazing that I've been able to shoot 1,954 ground hogs to date (since 1999) with a rifle cleaned with a bronze brush! Guess I'm just lucky.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist so chastise me, I've earned it.

You scared those chucks to death!

 

[Gargoyle]

I see carbon all along the edges of those grooves. Enough to worry about? I don't think so.

Is that carbon or is that nitride coating?

 

[Gargoyle]

I’ve never found Free All to be too strong to use inside. Are you using the aerosol or liquid version?
I would say if your barrel is truly clean then something on/in your rod/jags/brush is causing the black you are seeing. I’m still not convinced the barrel is 100% clean. Can you post some barrel pics?
Dave

Aerosol. Wife got pissed about the smell and kicked me out of the basement armory. Had to move to shop. What other barrel pics should I take?

 

[Gargoyle]

Or nylon brushes don't touch carbon.

WHY DID YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT!

 

[Dave M.]

Gotta love a good bore cleaning thread on Accurate Shooter, always results in a million different processes and even more opinions. If there is one or two consistent points that most of us agree on, it’s the following:
1. Get a decent bore scope to inspect your barrel
2. Find a process using proven methods and products (or witch’s brew of choice) to clean your barrel and verify the rifle is clean through the use of the borescope in step #1

There are a million ways to skin a cat. Pick one that works and stick to it.

Dave

 

[CT10ring]

I have used bronze brushes for many years, they do clean well and final patches ( using jag )do come out white...Here's a discussion about my cleaning a cromo bbb using a mild abrasive with patches. https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/jb-bore-bright.3946144/#post-37162039
the patches will always show black using an abrasive. I don't think your bronze brushes are the issue.
Can you post pics?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Theres a lot of carbon in that barrel, a lot. You need to keep on using that bronze brush and ditch whatever solvent youre using because its not working. Youll probably need JB or iosso in there actually. And you can trust high volume benchrest shooters everywhere, if youre not using a bronze brush now you will someday.

 

[Gargoyle]

Theres a lot of carbon in that barrel, a lot. You need to keep on using that bronze brush and ditch whatever solvent youre using because its not working. Youll probably need JB or iosso in there actually. And you can trust high volume benchrest shooters everywhere, if youre not using a bronze brush now you will someday.

Oh. I thought it was the nitride coating...

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Oh. I thought it was the nitride coating...

Run some iosso in there on a good patch then start cleaning again. Id like to see what it looks like then

 

[Gargoyle]

Run some iosso in there on a good patch then start cleaning again. Id like to see what it looks like then

Roger that.