Barrel Cleaning: A Discovery

[rijndael]

I don't know anything I am a rookie but I just don't see all the horrible fouling and carbon that folks talk about

I think if I get a bore scope I may start to be unhappy

If you haven't bore scoped it, you won't see it.

If you're happy with your current situation, don't go down that rabbit hole.

 

[dusterdave173]

Question
As long as the rifle groups like you want it to ( or at least does not start to go south) --it is good right?
I mean--I can look TOO close at anything I have around me and get the heebs--cell phone, light switch, money I handle--

 

[Gargoyle]

Took all 3 barrels and let them soak in Wipe-out with accelerator overnight. Patches came out with Wipeout with Accelerator. At this point, with the amount of cleaner and work I've done, I would use these barrels as a straw to drink from a cup. 10 passes with a new bronze brush and CLP....wait for it....BLACK.

I challenge anyone with a barrel they think is completely clean to run a bronze brush with any solvent/oil of choice and see what happens. I know.

 

[Gargoyle]

Same thing will happen when you rub Flitz bore cleaner or Flitz metal [or Iosso, or JB, or etc] polish on the outside of the barrel. You can do it forever and it will always turn black.

A potential takeaway from all this is, "Black on a patch after bronze brushing is not carbon residue". Wipeout turns carbon brown on a patch. When it turns black, stop. The black is oxide.

 

[mikecr]

Yeah, I was referring to Flitz POLISH.
Don't ever polish a bore.

As far as their new bore cleaner, I know nothing of it.

 

[Dimner]

Took all 3 barrels and let them soak in Wipe-out with accelerator overnight. Patches came out with Wipeout with Accelerator. At this point, with the amount of cleaner and work I've done, I would use these barrels as a straw to drink from a cup. 10 passes with a new bronze brush and CLP....wait for it....BLACK.

I challenge anyone with a barrel they think is completely clean to run a bronze brush with any solvent/oil of choice and see what happens. I know.

Did you try this also with a nylon brush for a couple of your regimens? Or brushes of other materials?

 

[BoydAllen]

Took all 3 barrels and let them soak in Wipe-out with accelerator overnight. Patches came out with Wipeout with Accelerator. At this point, with the amount of cleaner and work I've done, I would use these barrels as a straw to drink from a cup. 10 passes with a new bronze brush and CLP....wait for it....BLACK.

I challenge anyone with a barrel they think is completely clean to run a bronze brush with any solvent/oil of choice and see what happens. I know.

You can easily get a white patch from a barrel that has an abundance of hard carbon in it. I can see no reason not to invest in a $60 Teslong bore scope so that you can actually know what the inside of your barrel looks like. Bottom line, without a borescope you are just guessing.

 

[Dimner]

No, it won't. That's impossible.

I have stayed away from these threads because there is so much misinformation.

I think the problem is that these threads just say I use Flitz or Flitz will ruin your barrel... Without any indication of one of the dozen of products they sell.

Before I cared about cleaning my rifle any more than with hoppies #9 and a bore snake, I had Flitz metal polish that I used on my antique woodworking tools that I wanted to bring back to life. I was going to use it until i realized there also was bore cleaner. So I wonder how many people who hate flizt are talking about metal polish and how many people like it are talking about bore cleaner. And vice-versa.

 

[Dimner]

I don't know anything I am a rookie but I just don't see all the horrible fouling and carbon that folks talk about--My Savage barrel coppered up at the start but after about 1000K rounds that issue went away--I use Barnes, Hoppes, bronze brush and a lot of patches and some Gunscrubber at the end--after about 3500 rounds-
My barrel looks beautiful--I think if I get a bore scope I may start to be unhappy--as long as it shoots well I think I may just stay with not knowing
I shoot maybe 100-140 rounds per range visit , spend maybe 10 minutes on the barrel and call it good--

That's alot of rounds!

 

[Dimner]

That's a good idea.

The grit level of Flitz barrel cleaner is so fine it doesn't even qualify as "abrasive". That's straight from the manufacturer.

Sorry, I replied before I read further

 

[David Milisock]

The discovery:

Patches will forever come out black after bronze bore brushing, even when the barrel/bore is whistle clean. I attempted for hours to get the black to stop. It never will.

Methods/solvents:

Hoppes #9 foaming cleaner:

- 1 hour sit. Wet/dry patched dry with alcohol till dry patches white
- Flitz suspended in CLP using long & short strokes. Wet/Dry patch with alcohol till patches white
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white...

Wipeout foaming cleaner with same procedure in same barrel and:

- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white.
- CLP on bronze brush 10-50 strokes. Wet/dry patched with CLP/alcohol till patches white...

I ensured that the black wasn't a false read from potential carbon fiber scraping off the rod. Rod was not making contact in the barrel. Bore scope showing clean. Feel of the oiled patch smooth as velvet going through bore. Alcohol patches howling.

So, what is the black coming out of a clean barrel after bronze brushing? I don't care. I am doing 1 foam, one flitz, micro layer of CLP in bore and go on with life.

Your bronze brush while it may be removing hard to remove stuff from hard-to-reach areas it is contaminating the bore which is no issue. Take a piece of bronze and rub it against a piece of steel and then examine the steel under a magnifying glass. Bronze is softer than steel so when the two make contact under force the bronze material shed against the steel.

Run some soaked patches through the bore, then some dry patches and al will be well.

 

[David Milisock]

By observing the bore with a bore scope I have seen that bronze brushes do in fact leave very fine scratches in the bore. They run parallel with the rifling and follow the twist of the rifling. There is obviously a small amount of material removed otherwise there would be no scratches. I do not believe this harms the bore in any way that effects the accuracy I am able to achieve. This light scratching that is observable only by the magnification produced by the bore scope creates a very small amount of material which is what I see when I run a clean patch through the bore after using a bronze brush.
If some of you see absolutely no color on a patch at all I wish I could be there to see it because something that you do is different from what I do. What that is I can only guess.

Must be some awful soft steel!

 

[Bronsin]

This may sound like a dumb question, but are you cleaning the chamber out before you patch it out? There can be a ton of stuff in the chamber in front of the bore guide that your patch will keep picking up when entering the bore, making you think it's still dirty. After the scrubbing or abrasive cleaner gets used, first thing I do is clean the chamber, then swab out the bore.

I finally found a cleaner that works as well as IOSSO at removing carbon and polishes the bore like JB Bore Brite, the red stuff, and it's packed into a Flitz Metal Polish tube. It's used to polish gold jewlery. I think my barrel is safe from it.

 

[Gargoyle]

Did you try this also with a nylon brush for a couple of your regimens? Or brushes of other materials?

THIS! I bought nylon brushes for all calibers. To eliminate false copper fouling reads. Now I will try the nylon brushes to check false carbon reads!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Flitz bore cleaner and boretech eliminator is all I use anymore. There's really not a reason to use anything else. I suppose you could use a brush or you could use a nylon brush I just use patches. And you could run Flitz barrel cleaner for 5,000 strokes and it's not going to hurt your bore.

 

[Gargoyle]

This may sound like a dumb question, but are you cleaning the chamber out before you patch it out? There can be a ton of stuff in the chamber in front of the bore guide that your patch will keep picking up when entering the bore, making you think it's still dirty. After the scrubbing or abrasive cleaner gets used, first thing I do is clean the chamber, then swab out the bore.

I finally found a cleaner that works as well as IOSSO at removing carbon and polishes the bore like JB Bore Brite, the red stuff, and it's packed into a Flitz Metal Polish tube. It's used to polish gold jewlery. I think my barrel is safe from it.

Chambers and bores are howling clean. Carbon rings are non existent. I would drink through these things.

 

[Gargoyle]

CLARIFICATION:

All these barrels shoot fantastically. One is an insanely accurate barrel with 1/64" 4 shot group. I am not complaining about how the barrels shoot.

I own and have been using a bore scope during this entire process. ****BORE SCOPE - I HAS IT!****

My hypothesis was, "Can I remove all the carbon from a barrel?" I am finding out yes, but I also discovered a condition, a potential false read condition. Hence the thread title, "Discovery"

1. I will try the nylon bore brush. If the patch following the nylon brushing comes out white then I/we know the bronze brush is creating false carbon read.

2. If the patch is black following a nylon bore brush scrub, then we know its hidden carbon from somewhere in the barrel.

Questions:

I am using Flitz metal polish. What is the grain of Flitz metal vs Flitz bore cleaner? (I don't know I am asking)

If Flitz is so abrasive and can take metal away from my barrel then why doesn't it strip all copper from the barrel first? I have some stubborn copper spots in other barrels that I can't Flitz out.

 

[David Milisock]

I don't know anything I am a rookie but I just don't see all the horrible fouling and carbon that folks talk about--My Savage barrel coppered up at the start but after about 1000K rounds that issue went away--I use Barnes, Hoppes, bronze brush and a lot of patches and some Gunscrubber at the end--after about 3500 rounds-
My barrel looks beautiful--I think if I get a bore scope I may start to be unhappy--as long as it shoots well I think I may just stay with not knowing
I shoot maybe 100-140 rounds per range visit , spend maybe 10 minutes on the barrel and call it good--

Some people have trouble putting a condom on. In extreme competition there is some need for extra cleaning and care, the round volume certainty would point to it. How much extra cleaning is certainly where the one size fits all condom needs and instruction booklet.

There is no scientific study that I've read, that fit my two standards I have, it made sense and it was done scientifically. Just read this thread, CLEAN until it's spotless, however a bronze brush scratches the steel barrel. WTF!

I shoot, if I shoot a lot, I plug the bore dump some cleaner down it and let it soak a bit, (sometimes over night if the wife has something up). I run a non-steel brush through it with a bore guide, maybe 30 to 50 times. I wet patch until the patch comes out as white as it can considering it has solvent on it. I dry patch a few strokes and if it's getting stored, I oil patch.

I've been saving archived zero targets for rifles that rest a bit between walks for some years now. I had a bout of cancer in 2021, I had rifles that had sit in my cabinet from mid 2020 to late 2022. I pulled two out, (both over 90 years old) I wet patched them to remove crud, I dry patched them to clean the bore.

I took them to the range for a 300-yard test fire before using them. Cold bore shots were where they should have been, with one rifle looking through the new target to the archived zero target the first-round hole from the new target touched the first-round hole. The other rifle was within 3/8" of the old target. I sent them to the guys who needed them, and they both took deer, and they are cleaned and back in the cabinet now.

Shoot more, clean as required, I've been doing it this way for 55 years.

 

[jelenko]

. If the patch is black following a nylon bore brush scrub, then we know its hidden carbon from somewhere in the barrel.

To confirm that it's actually carbon, I think you need to try brushing on a clean piece of stainless steel. If it produces black on a white patch/cloth, it means something other than carbon is coming out.

 

[Andy Work]

CLARIFICATION:

All these barrels shoot fantastically. One is an insanely accurate barrel with 1/64" 4 shot group. I am not complaining about how the barrels shoot.

I own and have been using a bore scope during this entire process. ****BORE SCOPE - I HAS IT!****

My hypothesis was, "Can I remove all the carbon from a barrel?" I am finding out yes, but I also discovered a condition, a potential false read condition. Hence the thread title, "Discovery"

1. I will try the nylon bore brush. If the patch following the nylon brushing comes out white then I/we know the bronze brush is creating false carbon read.

2. If the patch is black following a nylon bore brush scrub, then we know its hidden carbon from somewhere in the barrel.

Questions:

I am using Flitz metal polish. What is the grain of Flitz metal vs Flitz bore cleaner? (I don't know I am asking)

If Flitz is so abrasive and can take metal away from my barrel then why doesn't it strip all copper from the barrel first? I have some stubborn copper spots in other barrels that I can't Flitz out.

I think you need a bore scope.





( I would insert a LMAO smiley here but I don't see one)