Are Howa actions “good enough” for a custom build? How true are they?

[Capt. Oblivious]

Yep. There are more convenient actions to use in the USA but if you're anywhere where the metric system dominates then you'll find Howa 1500's to be very popular rifles.

Silky bolt, flat bottom action, integral recoil lug, a ton of aftermarket goodies and now drop in shouldered and Howage barrels from McGowan are available and inexpensive.

Mine's a 6XC with a 25.5" Columbia River Arms 1:8, Jard and Timney and factory triggers (depending on what I'm doing with it), PTG bottom metal for AICS mags, 20moa rail, JP brake, Postman Precision chassis stock and a McGowan barrel nut. It serves usually as my backup rifle for PRS/NRL events but if I'm just out shooting and don't want to burn barrel life from my primary match rifle I'll just use this instead since they're chambered and head spaced identically so they can actually share brass with me only neck sizing.

I just came back from South Africa like I do every year. The number of Howa 1500's there would make your head spin. They're very well liked and those guys are pretty discriminating. The only thing I don't like about them for custom work is the tenon is kinda short which isn't great for huge diameter full bull profile barrels that are super long. I'm running a 1" straight tapered to ~.9" inch and it works brilliantly.

Jip, unless your shooting very high levels of tr/fopen over here Howas will out number any other make close to 10 to 1 on the shooting line. I have friends with 22-250, 22Dasher, 6SLR, 6Dasher, 6CreedM, 243AI, 6XC, 6.5CreedM, 6.5x55AI and various 284s build on them and they all shoot like crazy

 

[br1111]

Is it true that Howa's are a clone of a Sako action?

the one i had was a weatherby vanguard in 257 weatherby it was a carbon copy of a sako av action for the most part. it shot half inch groups.

 

[ebb]

I had once read that they were a Sako copy but after this thread started i could not find anything to confirm that. If i were going to copy another existing action i wouldn't copy junk I would copy the best, and a Sako is that.

 

[wbm]

I have had a Savage 110 extractor fail

Over four decades of building on and shooting Savage rifles I have never had an extractor fail due to breakage.

 

[mauser284]

The Remington extractor is strong. When it fails it is the rivet holding it that normally fails. I have seen Remington stock cheap looking extractor rip the case head off a piece of brass before.

The reason for the Sako extractor swap was not to look cool. It solved some issues with some custom builds issue when changing the size of the bolt face from standard to magnum.

There are some builds were the Sako extractor tosses the brass in a less than ideal way. Putting a Sako extractor on a Remington bolt is not always the best thing to do. As I understand it as you approach the limit of the Remington this becomes an issue but that is not from my experience and I might have it wrong so do not quote me!

On the other hand rifles designed with Sako/M16 style extractors work great.

I like Howa's right out of the box. I would not hesitate to build with one plenty do especialy outside of the USA. Now that Remington Actions have dried up and prices are at $850+ and your choices are slim I suspect Howa actions will quickly replace the Remington. If the Ruger American had better after market support it too could make a fantastic action to build with but currently support is lacking and it has a lot of MIM parts in the bolt and trigger.

I have seen plenty of Howa and Weatherby Vanguards shoot 1 MOA or better with premium factory ammo or better with reloads mine included. I have seen the non-magnums with the right load and a good shooter do .5 MOA

My Howa is the thin standard barrel in 300 Win Mag. The stock holds it back but with my reloads from a bench as long as I let it cool I can keep 3 shots in .7 MOA all day long at 200 yard letting that thin barrel cool is the secret. I am sure with a heavy custom barrel I could shrink that to .5 MOA and prob. do a 5 shot group. When I bought it the price was right and it was in stock. It has the factory Hogue stock. If I shoot it off a bipod the stock flexes and opens the groups from a bag no issue. Since I have loaded for 300WM since the mid 1995 while still in university I have never shot factory ammo in any 300WM I have owned after that point. Until I restock it I can not fault the gun at all. Normally off hand with a sling I can only hold about 1.75 inch group huge difference between resting on a bench and shooting off hand with a magnum. Plus the sling pulls that flexy Hogue Over Molded Stock just like a bipod does. So clearly the rifle has potential. I am not as good as I once was either lack of practice.

I think I was planning to go to a big box sporting good to look at buying a Remington Long Range or something like that in a fiberglass stock in 338RUM or 300RUM on sale for $799. I had to change my plans something came up with one of my kids. So I went shopping locally and found the Howa on Clearance for like $369 or $389 and pounced on it. I did not like the standard sized hunting weight barrel and hated the Hogue stock but at that price I could not say no. I figured I could build a 338RUM or 338 Edge on it since people have built 338LM on them. I took it too the range with some of my hand loads and after shooting it decided I would leave it alone and just consider restocking it and bedding it!

I think a Howa barreled action makes perfect sense especialy right now. I want a mini in 6.5 Grendel.

 

[Hohn]

Theres really nothing wrong with a Howa. I like my 6.5 Mini. Out of the box, the lugs were pretty even. I changed the horrid stock for an MDT My shooting buddy has one in 223 with a Pac-Nor 8 twist that shoots really well. It's a GRS Beserk stock and has a Rifle Basix trigger. Another colleague is doing well with a long action in 280Ai. The factory triggers are a bit agricultural, but with the usual spring changes etc, they can be made OK, if you don't expect a Jewell.

Stocks and chassis are available from MDT, GRS and others. Enjoy.

And the winner for “most creative trigger adjective” goes to…..NZ FCLASS! Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Kurz]

I would not hesitate to build with one plenty do especialy outside of the USA. Now that Remington Actions have dried up and prices are at $850+ and your choices are slim I suspect Howa actions will quickly replace the Remington.

While there may be a dearth of Remington M700 actions and certain rifles currently due to circumstances outside of Remington Arms control, the Howa will NOT replace the Remingtons here, quickly or even at a snail's pace. They may have the popularity slot overseas and in South Africa but not here.

What we saw was Howa and Legacy Sports flood the U.S. market with underpriced barreled actions in order to gain some sort of foothold. That's at the bottom of the ladder where the folks only interested in price point buy. Cheap. Some of the custom builders bought into it in a very small way just because they didn't have to gamble away $1,000 in order to test build on a 'custom' action. The ploy achieved a slight elevation in Howa's market share but nothing even close to being significant.

Questions and threads such as this gather all the opinions from all the varied sources of the members and really solve nothing. Invariably, the opinions split down the middle or close to it unless the fan boys drive the naysayers off the thread. Ask about the best action, barrel maker or cartridge and you will see an amazing spread of general information and anecdotal information. Much of the information is not representative of the broad spectrum, rather it is made up of the exceptions to the rule. But there is a large pool of shooters with different ideas of what is good for them and don't care what the opinions of others are. Not everyone needs to shoot a BAT action or use a Talon press, or select a March or Swarovski scope. There will always be a niche for the less expensive alternatives.

Until more gunsmiths get comfortable with cutting metric threads, the broad insertion of Howas into this market will be slow. I simply flip a switch and change programs, no big deal. But for those folks working with the older manual lathes, it can require changing gears and belts in some cases. Normally a gunsmith charges for the down time required to change the headstock over. Nowadays though the competition will sometimes preclude the additional cost.

Howas are here and certainly offering another choice for shooters and builders but they will not push Remington or any other manufacturer out the door. They will choose to coexist with the market share they can hold onto.

Enjoy!

 

[Will Henry]

The metric thread is an issue for many but it is not a big issue if one is accustomed to it. The gear switch takes two minutes for me on my old lathe.
The Howa is a solid design which is based, to some extent, on the Sako L61. I think the trigger is a decent one. I have not tried to do a three lever conversion on one so can't say if it is even possible. I do not like actions on which the front guard screw is located at the front of the receiver; in the recoil lug. This is not to say this is a flaw at all; I just don't like it. Bolt to receiver bore clearance is often a little excessive and it was a Howa action which was the first to receive my dovetailed inserts to eliminate the deflection of the rear of the bolt.
As the basis for a custom target rifle, I think it is a workable alternative but I still don't mind using Model 70's so my bar may not be as high as some. As the basis for a fine sporting rifle, I think it comes up a bit short although the best makers can easily make silk purses from sows ears. The bottom metal is a bit cheesy. The tang shape isn't too great. The overall appearance isn't all that bad though and there were some fine rifles built on L61's, back in the day, and I have little doubt a good maker could build a nice rifle on a Howa. I mean, anyone who can make a P14 look good would have no trouble making a Howa classy! WH

 

[ImBIllT]

I had once read that they were a Sako copy but after this thread started i could not find anything to confirm that. If i were going to copy another existing action i wouldn't copy junk I would copy the best, and a Sako is that.

The early Howa’s(before the model 1500) were definitely copies of Sakos. The Howa Golden Bear was a copy of a Sako L-61. I have seen a prototype rifle built buy Howa in 308Win that was Sako L-579 sized, but had design aspects more reminiscent of the L-61, and although it fit in an L-579 stock, the action screws did not line up. Triggers on both were copies of Sako triggers. Howa was sued by Sako and lost, then made modifications to avoid being sued. I’ve never owned a Howa 1500 and do not know how similar a 1500 is to the Howa Golden Bear.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Didn't like my chart, huh?
As a matter of fact, I have rebarrelled and hunted with (8) Rem700 rifles, and got new bolts with AR extractors on (5) of them and stock bolts on (3) of them.
I have never seen a rem700 extractor fail.
I have had a Sav 110 extractor fail with just my right arm pulling. That scared me.
I saw a big guy clear a stuck cartridge in a FAL by jumping on the operating handle like a pogo stick. That scared me.
I suppose I do have the background to calculate the stress in Rem700 extractor, but I just want to go on promulgating.

I disagree with your statement about remington bolt handles being soldered and screwed on. I also disagree about the safety aspect and the extractor as well. Its like whoever wrote that has never seen one or at least not spent much time working with them.

 

[3Sigma]

When you can get an ARC Nucleus for $750 and bare Remingtons are going for $500+, there is a narrow price range where a Howa makes sense.

If I'm going to drop more than $800 on a barreled action, I'll get a Remmy and have a Remage made to my liking, or just bite the bullet and go custom.

Howa's problem is price and support in the USA. They aren’t cheap enough for the budget builds (Savages and Rugers), and don't have the options and flexibility of a 700 footprint custom.

I've never shot one, but those I've handled and cycled felt good and the machining was good,, so if I ever find one at a good price, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. But, to pay full price, there are better options in my opinion.

 

[SShooterZ]

I bought a handful of Howas when CDNN was blowing them out. Varmint setups for about $400 each. My Howa actions cycle much nicer than any of my 700s and are only surpassed by Sako in my limited experience. I should have bought more when Brownells was selling the actions cheap. I have to rebarrel a .223 that has had thousands and thousands of rounds down the barrel on prairie dog towns. One of the most accurate factory guns I’ve ever owned. Budget this, custom that, I personally feel I get more rifle for my buck from a Howa that any other brand. And I’ve got plenty of Savages and Rem 7/700s to compare.

 

[EOD Rob]

No experience with the 1500 in a custom, however I do own one with a heavy barrel in 308Win. Bought it years ago when I was at EOD school. The plan was for a cheap truck gun that I didnt worry about banging around.
Was totally expecting a 1.5 MOA gun! My first time to the range with factory hunting ammo she proved me wrong. 3/4 MOA on every string I shot.
I took the time to work up a pet load for her and got her clean down to .311" groups! Pretty impressive out of a $400 gun if you ask me. Even after I had the 20" barrel cut to 18" and threaded, she still shot the same. It is still my go to rifle when I'm on the farm and have to make the shot no matter what.
I normally use Savage for my custom builds because I can do most of it with minor tools, but I would not hesitate to use a 1500 for a custom build. I may have just gotten a really good one, but ha, she shoots.
Poor man's custom rifle! Why spend money you don't need to?

 

[vonb]

Color me nothing but impressed with Howa actions. They feel solid and are really smooth when operating the bolt. Feeding and extraction is positive which can't be said for some of the factory offerings out there today.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I’ve had two Rem 700 extractors fail with a popped primer in load testing. Also seen sako extractors fail and blow completely off with a popped primer. Never had a M16 or mini 16 fail yet.

For the Howa, I like them. Finished a 20 PPC build on a Howa-mini last year and have another Howa-mini barreled action in the safe waiting on my decision for its fate. Really cool little actions. Howa took the best features of the Winchester Model 70 and Remington 700 actions then made it all even better by adding a M16 extractor to the bolt. You don’t have to worry about cock on close trigger timing or extraction cam timing being off like they always are with a Rem 700. The Howa bolts are timed up nicely

The Howa factory trigger is almost identical to a Tikka and Sako so it’s also better than any factory trigger offerings from Remington.

 

[No manches"]

There are more pro's that con's on a howa action.
I have several now!..I find the mini's to be optimal and tops most.
I got a SA Howa with the smith as we speak. All they really need is bolt lug lapping and a trigger tune-up and they function better than the 700's. The integral recoil lug and the M16 extractor just surpasses the Rem's if you ask me.
The con's are miniscule and mostly is the detachable magazine.....

 

[mauser284]

I just bought another one 3/10/2022 to build off of. I got it $529 before tax. It is a combo package so it is a complete rifle in 300 Win Mag, Scope base, rings, scope, threaded barrel, Hogue over molded stock.

Name a better action that you can purchase at this moment in time that has a forged steel receiver and forged 1 piece bolt for $529? Let alone complete rifle?

Name another mass produced bolt action receiver for $529 that has a flat bottom and built in recoil lug?

Name another action in this price range that is milled instead turned on a lathe from bar stock or shaped on ancient metal shaper?

Sure the stock is heavy and flexy but that is easy to replace. If I put a piece of Walnut on it the rifle will be lighter as is than most custom light weight mountain rifle builds we see featured on this site.

While alloy it is metal for the bottom metal and not plastic missing an actual trigger guard. As much as I like the Ruger American in the $500 ball park the Howa is 3X the rifle when looking at materials, machining steps, easy of upgrading and after market support and the same thing when comparing to similar priced Savage Axis.

I already know no one on this site as of my writing this on 3/13/22 can name anything.

In fact who else besides Eastern European's making modern Mauser actions offer's a forged bolt action receiver and bolt at any price point? Does anyone else today offer a receiver that is totally or primarily milled at any price point?

 

[284winner]

I’m looking for opinions from guys that have worked with them. I’ve read a little about cheap barreled actions from PT&G being ok for a hunting rifle or truck gun but I haven’t seen much about using them for a custom build. A few years ago, I bought a few guns from an estate sale. One of the guns was a 6.5x284 with a nice Manners stock, custom barrel and a Howa Action. It was the first one I’ve seen. Feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Josh

I contemplated this option having a few Weatherby long actions. I had a hard time finding OTC stocks that I liked without getting a custom fit McMillan or Manners. Not many stock configurations are offered for the Weatherby/Howa actions. Triggers are another thing that really aren't offered by many companies. At least back 10-15 years ago when I looked into stocks and triggers. Decided to stick with Remington's and have them cleaned up. Only found a couple chassis options that appealed to me for the Weatherby action but wasn't looking for that platform at the time.

 

[Spook]

My only gripe with Howa is customer support.
You cant call up and buy a bolt, they will fit a new bolt to your action ( their words not mine) but they wont send you a new one.
Other than that they are really nice actions to build off of and shoot really well.

 

[Laurie]

At least back 10-15 years ago when I looked into stocks and triggers.

You'll find things are very different today.