Are Howa actions “good enough” for a custom build? How true are they?

[joshb]

I’m looking for opinions from guys that have worked with them. I’ve read a little about cheap barreled actions from PT&G being ok for a hunting rifle or truck gun but I haven’t seen much about using them for a custom build. A few years ago, I bought a few guns from an estate sale. One of the guns was a 6.5x284 with a nice Manners stock, custom barrel and a Howa Action. It was the first one I’ve seen. Feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Josh

 

[ballisticxlr]

Yep. There are more convenient actions to use in the USA but if you're anywhere where the metric system dominates then you'll find Howa 1500's to be very popular rifles.

Silky bolt, flat bottom action, integral recoil lug, a ton of aftermarket goodies and now drop in shouldered and Howage barrels from McGowan are available and inexpensive.

Mine's a 6XC with a 25.5" Columbia River Arms 1:8, Jard and Timney and factory triggers (depending on what I'm doing with it), PTG bottom metal for AICS mags, 20moa rail, JP brake, Postman Precision chassis stock and a McGowan barrel nut. It serves usually as my backup rifle for PRS/NRL events but if I'm just out shooting and don't want to burn barrel life from my primary match rifle I'll just use this instead since they're chambered and head spaced identically so they can actually share brass with me only neck sizing.

I just came back from South Africa like I do every year. The number of Howa 1500's there would make your head spin. They're very well liked and those guys are pretty discriminating. The only thing I don't like about them for custom work is the tenon is kinda short which isn't great for huge diameter full bull profile barrels that are super long. I'm running a 1" straight tapered to ~.9" inch and it works brilliantly.

 

[msalm]

I’ve rebarreled at least a dozen of them (maybe over 20?), and they’re very good. I haven’t ever recut the action face as they are very true as is from the ones I’ve worked on. Something not mentioned is their action threads are timed, must be thread milled in the same fixture and faced in the same operation as you can take any factory take-off barrel and they time right up with the lettering. Now this does not mean the headspace is correct, but they’ve always been within spec when I did swap a barrel. This has been with about half and half standard 1500’s and the mini’s. I like them a lot and don’t hesitate to use them for custom builds.

 

[jghoghunter]

Here is one. It was a barreled action from Brownells. I built the stock for it for my dad. It shoots most handloads under .75". It's a 6.5/55.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Theres really nothing wrong with a Howa. I like my 6.5 Mini. Out of the box, the lugs were pretty even. I changed the horrid stock for an MDT My shooting buddy has one in 223 with a Pac-Nor 8 twist that shoots really well. It's a GRS Beserk stock and has a Rifle Basix trigger. Another colleague is doing well with a long action in 280Ai. The factory triggers are a bit agricultural, but with the usual spring changes etc, they can be made OK, if you don't expect a Jewell.

Stocks and chassis are available from MDT, GRS and others. Enjoy.

 

[ebb]

Is it true that Howa's are a clone of a Sako action?

 

[JohnKielly]

Howa is the Weatherby Vanguard, I understand.

 

[DGP4]

Is it true that Howa's are a clone of a Sako action?

Howa 1500 actions are a combination of elements from the Winchester Model 70 and the Remington 700, but is a unique design manufactured in Japan. Here is a good article on them:

Howa How-To: Basics of Howa Rifles and Barrel-Swapping Tips « Daily Bulletin

Rifleshooter.com built this tactical rifle (top image) with a Howa 1500 action, Shilen barrel, and MDT chassis. Below is a factory Howa 1500 Multi-Cam rifle. Many of our readers are thinking of purchasing a Howa rifle or barreled action. These feature smooth-running actions with a good two-stage...

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

 

[Oso]

Beyond design/size, I think there is a key difference when contemplating using a Howa 1500 or Howa Mini 1500 action for a custom build. The Howa 1500 (full size action) has broader/deeper vendor support in aftermarket parts and upgrades. However, the Howa Mini-1500, which is similar in size to CZ527 action, has an extremely limited field of aftermarket components to the point that there may only be a single source for a key replacement/upgrade part. Customer Service is non-existent.

Just something to think about beyond just the action machining.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Beyond design/size, I think there is a key difference when contemplating using a Howa 1500 or Howa Mini 1500 action for a custom build. The Howa 1500 (full size action) has broader/deeper vendor support in aftermarket parts and upgrades. However, the Howa Mini-1500, which is similar in size to CZ527 action, has an extremely limited field of aftermarket components to the point that there may only be a single source for a key replacement/upgrade part. Customer Service is non-existent.

Just something to think about beyond just the action machining.

You make a good point. Aftermarket parts are fewer for the mini - but really only the stock. There are triggers - it is the same as the full size. The tenon thread is the same (metric thread). 20 Moa rail - i did have to hunt for one - can't remember who supplied it, was it EGW? The "oversight" on Howa's part is not using an AR magazine in the mini. As a 2 lug action, I can see the issue. The Howa plastic mag feeds fine. Customer service - I have not gone looking for spares, so I can't comment. The local importer, effectively Legacy, also brings in the Australian built, "Southern Cross Small Arms TSP-X" modular chassis for the full size 1500 and Mini which is OK...with limitations (See "Mark and Sam after work" on You Tube for the mods that he made). I believe that these are also available from Legacy Sports in the US.

The Mini is available in 222. I'm sure there will be a 6 ARC at some point. The 7.62 or Grendel is a start for a custom build in 6 ARC or 30 Major without breaking the bank. No left hand Mini, which would have been a great base for a pistol.

 

[jdh47]

I think the Howa borrows more from the Mauser concept than Remington. Threads are different but the flat action with integral recoil lug remind me of Mausers. If Remington had embraced the M16 style extractor and side bolt release it would have been an awesome combination.

 

[Clark]

I made this chart over 10 years ago.
Since then someone corrected me about Rem700s being a tube.
I own Howa, M70, Rem700, and M98 rifles, but I learned from Frank De Haas book "Bolt Action Rifles". He could see more than me when he took a gun apart.


The 98 Mauser has:
1) flat bottomed receiver to take torque from rifling
2) controlled feed
3) claw typed extractor
4) safety on firing pin, often modified to be 2 or 3 position M70 type
5) multi stage gas filter on firing pin hole for safety
6) bolt handle is integrally forged as part of bolt body
7) safety lug below rear bridge
8) integral recoil lug
9) knife ejector in bolt lug slot
10 an inner C ring to put the tenon threads in compression

The rem 700
1) receiver made from round tubing
2) push feed
3) little wimpy extractor
4) safety on trigger
5) simple bolt
6) bolt handle tacked on with screw and solder
7) nothing for safety if bolt lugs fail.
8) recoil lug is a modified washer that is captured by the receiver and barrel
9) plunger ejector
10) No inner C ring, so the only thing holding the barrel to the receiver is the tenon threads in tension

Of the ~100 bolt action covered in the above book, they seem to all be on the spectrum somewhere between the simple Rem700 and the complex 1898 Mauser design.

The Howa 1500:
1) flat bottom receiver
2) push feed
3) short claw extractor is bigger than rem, but smaller than M98
4) three position bolt safety
5) simple bolt
6) Integral bolt handle
7) nothing
8) integral recoil lug
9) plunger ejector

I would give the Howa Mauser scale = ~50% Mauser
I would give the Howa Rem700 scale = ~50% Rem700

 

[SShooterZ]

For those of you that have rebarreled, any recommendation on what contour best replaces the factory varmint barrel? Seems to be close to a #6 or REM varmint.

As for the rifles themselves, the 1500s I’ve owned have all been shooters.

 

[JohnKielly]

I would give the Howa Mauser scale = ~50% Mauser
I would give the Howa Rem700 scale = ~50% Rem700

Nothing in common with all those other Euro actions - Sako, Tikka Schultz & Larsen, for example?

 

[Seagull]

I have rebarreled my howa 1500shirt action after many years of use with the light barrel and now have a target barrel fitted. Action didn't need truing up and no bolt work was needed either and it's a lazer in paddock

 

[ballisticxlr]

Rem700 extractors are not wimpy. I'd say that's a misnomer promulgated by people that've never broken an extractor on one but which wanted a cooler looking M16 extractor and the opinion has turned into internet lore.

 

[Bamban]

Weatherby Vanguard SubMoa 300WM, bedded, and threaded for 9/16x24 Micro B. Ammo: MK248 Mod0 @500 yards confirming elevation zeros. It is my rifle, former Guard Marksmanship CO shot the group. The rifle/ammo/shooter maintained cold bore hits on E silhouette plates from 200 to 1000. Pretty impressive for a skinny factory barrel.

 

[Clark]

Rem700 extractors are not wimpy. I'd say that's a misnomer promulgated by people that've never broken an extractor on one but which wanted a cooler looking M16 extractor and the opinion has turned into internet lore.

Didn't like my chart, huh?
As a matter of fact, I have rebarrelled and hunted with (8) Rem700 rifles, and got new bolts with AR extractors on (5) of them and stock bolts on (3) of them.
I have never seen a rem700 extractor fail.
I have had a Sav 110 extractor fail with just my right arm pulling. That scared me.
I saw a big guy clear a stuck cartridge in a FAL by jumping on the operating handle like a pogo stick. That scared me.
I suppose I do have the background to calculate the stress in Rem700 extractor, but I just want to go on promulgating.

 

[ballisticxlr]

Didn't like my chart, huh?
As a matter of fact, I have rebarrelled and hunted with (8) Rem700 rifles, and got new bolts with AR extractors on (5) of them and stock bolts on (3) of them.
I have never seen a rem700 extractor fail.
I have had a Sav 110 extractor fail with just my right arm pulling. That scared me.
I saw a big guy clear a stuck cartridge in a FAL by jumping on the operating handle like a pogo stick. That scared me.
I suppose I do have the background to calculate the stress in Rem700 extractor, but I just want to go on promulgating.

I loved your chart but disagreed with that one statement. I'd say your experience mirrors mine.

 

[300_whisper]

@joshb theres a guy on a Georgia specific forum that I do training with. He’s a smith and firearms trainer in fighting guns and long range shooting. He’s always assisting guys in finding the cheap but quality type stuff, and he does it solely to get them more into shooting. Well, he’s building a custom Howa in 6.5 grendel as a long range, compact gun. This is what he has so far. He’s putting a 2.5x20 NX8 on it. The guy knows his stuff and he really likes Howa.