7mm 190gr A tip
- Thread starter No i deer
- Start date
I have shot about 200 of these (190 ATips) in an 8 twist .284 Win at 2750fps. All have made the target. This is in an Fclass application.
I guess we will see.
I guess we will see.
I sectioned a 190 Atip, 147 ELDM, Berger 184 and 190 then melted the lead out of them to measure the jacket thickness. The Atip and ELDM were the same thickness and were both about .002 less than the Bergers. I have not lost any Atips yet but haven't shot that many. I did lose a 180 ELDM in the TSRA state championship a few years ago so quit using them. YMMV.
That’s good information to know. The jackets more than likely are the same. Hornady doesn’t identify the A-Tip jackets on packaging like they do on ELDM’s.
With the same jacket thickness between the two bullet lines, whether they share origin may not even matter.
I believe the only thing that could possibly save A-Tips in the summer heat would be if they were slightly narrower bodied than the ELDMs so as to reduce heat build up.
I haven’t measured them but they don’t seat with materially different force.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Good information, thanks. Even before seeing your comment, my guess was that Hornady is using the exact same jackets on the A-tips as they do on the ELDMs. If not the exact same jacket, something so close any differences are meaningless.
Hornady is well aware that the ELDMs have jacket issues. There are several threads here and elsewhere describing people's woes with jacket failures using these bullets. As far as I can tell, Hornady has decided not to do anything about it, or at least they're not telling their customers about it if they are. That's a poor business decision IMO. If a company only sells hunting bullets they might be able to get away with that kind of behavior. However, the ELDMs and A-tips are aimed more at the target shooting crowd. In that group, even a single jacket failure during a competition means they will lose. That is totally unacceptable, even one single jacket failure, and shooters that have experienced that issue will simply buy another manufacturer's product. You can't win if all your bullets don't make it to the target. How much money is that worth?
And Berger figured this out years ago and made changes to their bullets and now are top dogs because of it. Hornady won’t ever be a player in the competition game. They believe they know everything.
MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
I've always wondered how/why the PRS guys aren't seeing ELDM failures like the F-Class folks. It seems to be a 'known thing' in the F-Class world, but that thread on SH is the first I've ever heard of PRS guys reporting failures...and it was my impression Hornady had pretty decent PRS market-share.
FWIW - I'm ~300 110 Atips deep into a 6mm GT and haven't blown one up yet...shot a 33rd string with them due to e-target issues; makes me think I got lucky or something.
FWIW - I'm ~300 110 Atips deep into a 6mm GT and haven't blown one up yet...shot a 33rd string with them due to e-target issues; makes me think I got lucky or something.
whatwind?
Silver $$ Contributor
And they are a 25% +\- Premium to Berger, so other than curiosity, why even f with them?
my guess is they are giving the PRS guys the a tips or at a very low price, because I don’t see the people who shoot the most by far wanting to pay more
anyway, good thread and information
I have ordered a 8 twist for 7mm at sea level with 190 LRHT
my guess is they are giving the PRS guys the a tips or at a very low price, because I don’t see the people who shoot the most by far wanting to pay more
anyway, good thread and information
I have ordered a 8 twist for 7mm at sea level with 190 LRHT
Ron Gorski
Silver $$ Contributor
Contact Hornady. I have RM# and they are emailing me a prepaid mailing label to return some Atips. So, I think they are interest in making things right.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
One possible difference between the two disciplines that comes to mind might be barrel length. Barrels of 30-32" are common amongst F-Class shooters and longer barrels are known to cause increase friction and can exacerbate jacket failure.
moondog
Gold $$ Contributor
Regarding Hornady jackets. I've tried a variety of them across several calibers. I've had some impressive results with a few varieties.
What I have noticed is no mater the caliber, Hornadys deposit more copper than Berger's. Verified by my Hawkeye. The 162s in one of my 7 SAUMs were impressive at 1900 yards.
It just took a week to get the barrel clean.
What I have noticed is no mater the caliber, Hornadys deposit more copper than Berger's. Verified by my Hawkeye. The 162s in one of my 7 SAUMs were impressive at 1900 yards.
It just took a week to get the barrel clean.
I seem to recall that they used AMP jackets which are the same as the ELD-M's. I don't know where I read it...perhaps on the box? They are horrible so I would stay away from them. Thank me later.
I must have been wearing my rose-tinted, see no evil glasses. Indeed they do put “AMP” on the A-Tip box.
Me: Paid a lot for -10’s.
Hornady: Read the box. AMP.
“All Matches Prohibited”
“Adjust My Placement”
“Apart Means Performance”
“A Minor Poof”
“Air Might Perforate”
“A Million Pieces”
“Adheres Metal Poorly”
Last edited:
Good ones David
.
I've got one... "Avoid Major Problems" Don't shoot these until some fools can prove that they can be trusted. I say that with 50% sarcasm and 50% true feeling. I'll be one of the sacrificial lambs though
. I'm very optimistic, cautiously so, but very optimistic. We'll see once I get some rounds down a hot firecracked throat at, oh..., shot 18-20. I will certainly make every attempt to blow some up before the La LR and TSRA LR champs. I have been also working with the 190 Berger LRH's as a back-up plan.
.I've got one... "Avoid Major Problems" Don't shoot these until some fools can prove that they can be trusted. I say that with 50% sarcasm and 50% true feeling. I'll be one of the sacrificial lambs though
. I'm very optimistic, cautiously so, but very optimistic. We'll see once I get some rounds down a hot firecracked throat at, oh..., shot 18-20. I will certainly make every attempt to blow some up before the La LR and TSRA LR champs. I have been also working with the 190 Berger LRH's as a back-up plan.That was my experience with a Brux 4-groove with conventional lands shooting 6.5mm 150 SMK's.
I went for a practice session last Sunday on the 1000yds electronics with my 7mm saum using my well worn 1 in 9 barrel.
I used my 63.6gr H1000 load and 184gr hybrids. I shot like I would shoot a detail. 4 or 5 blow off then into a 2 + 15 COF.
The 184s shot pretty good and all shots registered.
As the barrel was warm I thought it was the opportune time to fire 5 of the 180gr ELDM's I loaded for the purpose to see if I could get a blow up and physically see it and got my shooting partner to watch for them. We didn't see it happen but 2 of the 5 never registered..
By the end of the morning and afternoon session I'd fired 73 x 184gr hybrids and they all registered.
My mate used his 284 and his 308 and probaly fired 100 shots and all his registered..
No way is that a coincidence that the ELDM's didn't make it too the target..
Hornady definately have a problem and if the A tips start doing the same that would be a disaster.
I used my 63.6gr H1000 load and 184gr hybrids. I shot like I would shoot a detail. 4 or 5 blow off then into a 2 + 15 COF.
The 184s shot pretty good and all shots registered.
As the barrel was warm I thought it was the opportune time to fire 5 of the 180gr ELDM's I loaded for the purpose to see if I could get a blow up and physically see it and got my shooting partner to watch for them. We didn't see it happen but 2 of the 5 never registered..
By the end of the morning and afternoon session I'd fired 73 x 184gr hybrids and they all registered.
My mate used his 284 and his 308 and probaly fired 100 shots and all his registered..
No way is that a coincidence that the ELDM's didn't make it too the target..
Hornady definately have a problem and if the A tips start doing the same that would be a disaster.
Last edited:
@whatwind? Where dud you find A-tips at $0.66 a piece!?!? Best I found was $0.71 in orders of 500 or more.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.