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Super High BC for 284/7mm Bullets

I have just been having a look at the Matrix Ballistics website http://www.matrixballistics.com/.284-Caliber-rifle-bullets.html and am having difficulty believing what I read.

7mm bullets with amazingly high G1, BCs e.g. 168gr VLD BC = 0.7136 and 190gr VLD BC = 0.8071!!!!!!!!!!!

Has anyone used these target bullets? Does anyone have any first hand info on how they shoot? Can anyone verify the claimed BCs?

Ian
 
Re: Super High BC for 7mm Bullets

7 mm bullets have the highest available BCs, short of .50 and some limited-production (pricey!!!) exotics. Many long-range shooters are going to 7 mm cartridges, and many who shot 6.5/.284 are going to the parent .284. I shoot the 162 gr A-Max in a .284 for long range; it doesn't have the highest available BC, but it can be driven enough faster to make up the difference.
 
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Re: Super High BC for 7mm Bullets

I have never shot them but those high BC's have my intrest. I would like to know how accurate their claims really are.
 
Magnumwill said:
I have never shot them but those high BC's have my intrest. I would like to know how accurate their claims really are.
So would I, and I'm hoping someone has tried these bullets and can let us all know how well they shoot!

Ian
 
I've got 200 in the mail. I will probably get a chance to try some in the next couple of weeks. I've also got 100 189gr Cauterucios to compare them with. It should be very interesting.
 
Look up bullets from Lutz Moeller and GS Customs for some insane BCs and weird shapes. The G1 coefficient isn't for these bullets. Be nice to have the BCs confirmed at a 3rd party ballistics proving ground with millimeter wave radar.


http://lutz-moeller-jagd.de/English/LM-Class-Bullets.htm

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/sp.html
 
TonyR said:
I've got 200 in the mail. I will probably get a chance to try some in the next couple of weeks. I've also got 100 189gr Cauterucios to compare them with. It should be very interesting.
Please let us know how they perform Tony!
I'm still fire forming cases with Berger 180gr VLDs and cant believe how well the 284 Shehane coupled with a Krieger 5R barrel shoots. The BCs on the Matrix Ballistics bullets should see even less wind drift on the long ranges.

Look forward to reading the results on your upcoming bullet comparo.

Ian
 
I am looking forward to some results myself, but I have been thinking about how to do a fair test. I do all of my load development using a variation of Jason Baney's Round Robin method but I have seen some pretty strange results when I tried to compare Sierra 107 MK to the 6mm Berger 105VLD possibly because the jacket materials are different. No problem comparing the Bergers with the Matrix bullets because both use J-4 jackets but I would like to do the 189 Cauteruccios in the same rotation and Bob uses Sierra jackets. Anyone have any thoughts on how to deal with this issue?
 
I find it hard to believe those BCs. As best you can tell from the small images they look a fairly standard VLD shape (form), and with a 13-cal radius nose, they're actually less pointed than the Berger equivalents (168 and 180 VLDs over 18-cal radius). The meplat diameters are also larger than those in the Berger lots that Bryan Litz tested and has in "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting".

Bryan L gets a single G1 value for 3,000 fps of 0.633 for the Berger 168 and 0.706 for the 180. So the Matrix models BCs may be correct, but only while they're travelling at 4,000 fps or suchlike!

That's not to say they're not excellent bullets on the range. It's just that I don't see how these particular claims can hold water.
 
Laurie said:
Bryan L gets a single G1 value for 3,000 fps of 0.633 for the Berger 168 and 0.706 for the 180. So the Matrix models BCs may be correct, but only while they're travelling at 4,000 fps or suchlike!

Laurie,

Just a quick question, may be completely off base, but I am just curious. (I too am skeptical of the BCs).

If the Matrix bullets share the same shape as the Berger VLDs could the difference between the 168g and 180g BCs be extrapolated to the 190g Matrix bullets. BC difference between 168/180g, 0.73, add that to the 180g Berger = 0.779. I guess pretty close to the 0.801 listed BC for the bullet.

I also contacted them and they stated that the 190g bullet is stabilized by 1:9 twist.

Anxious to hear how they shoot....
 
Thanks for the info about the twist. I had planned to test them with a 1:9 although it might not matter if the weather stays warm. I will be interested in the bearing surface length and if I have enough throat to seat them out.
 
If the Matrix bullets share the same shape as the Berger VLDs could the difference between the 168g and 180g BCs be extrapolated to the 190g Matrix bullets. BC difference between 168/180g, 0.73, add that to the 180g Berger = 0.779. I guess pretty close to the 0.801 listed BC for the bullet. [Kyreloader]


BC is the ratio of Form Factor (a measure of bullet shape efficiency and as it's drag based, the lower the figure the better) and SD. AS SD is a ratio of calibre and weight, it's determined solely by the bulletr's weight in the calibre, so any 7mm 168 is 0.2976, and any 190 is 0.3365.

To get the G1 based form factor or factors (i1) that Matrix is using, we divide the two bullets' SD values by the claimed BCs and we get a single i1 value for both bullet weights of 0.417, ie they are deemed to have equally effcient forms or shapes. That is a little suspicious in that same basic design but different weight (hence length) bullets should have similar but not identical i1 values. Bryan Litz comes up with 0.483 and 0.486 for the 168 and 180gn Berger VLDs. Anyway, let's not nitpick, the important thing is that Matrix is apparently using an identical front and rear-end design on its two 7mm VLDs and varyies the length of the bit in the middle to change the weight - fairly common practice when you have an inherently good shape that works but you want different lengths/weights.

So the key issue is that 0.417 i1 value that is the key determinant of the BC for any given 7mm bullet weight. Is it reasonable?

Here's Bryan L's average i1 values for similar designs from other companies:

Berger 168/180 - 0.483/486
Sierra 168 MK (tangent ogive design) - 0.528
Sierra 175 MK (secant ogive design) - 0.486
Hornady 162 A-Max (secant ogive) - 0.480
JLK 180 VLD (secant ogive) - 0.495

Looking through Bryan's book, I cannot find an i1 value for any bullet in any calibre that comes anywhere near the 0.417 that the Matrix bullets would need to obtain those claimed g1 BCs. There is nothing below 0.480 in 6.5 and 7mm, and looking at 6mm and .308 takes to you to values above 0.500.

To be fair, i1 form factors and hence g1 BCs vary significantly throughout their flights according to their velocity - which is why the G1 form is a poor measure for long-range shooters - and we don't know what particular velocity Matrix has used in what is most probably a computer generated BC. Bryan's i1 and G1 BC values are averages for a 1,000yd flight starting at around 3,000 fps MV.

In terms of the bullet nose shape (its length and shape as determined by the radius in calibres), the Matrix design is close to the 7mm 175gn Sierra MK so it would be reasonable to assume that the 168's BC is a bit lower than that bullet's, while the 190gn will be a fair bit higher. In either event, having looked at the figures again, I don't believe the claimed BCs, not unless the company has reinvented the laws of aerodynamics!

Laurie,
Yortk, England
 
Laurie,

Thanks alot for your response. That is basically what I expected, I too was a bit suspicious of the inflated numbers that I had seen on their website. Your explanation was also how I understood the basic aerodynamics.

I ordered 100 of the 190g to see how they shoot, just because. I will follow up when I get some time to load a few up to shoot.

Thanks again for your time.
 
Re: Super High BC for 284/7mm Bullets-Updated

I had the chance to shoot the 190g Matrix VLDs next to the 180g Berger Hybrids at 600 yards in an Fclass match this weekend.

I shot both bullets in a .284 Shehane with a 30 inch Shilen barrel. The 190g bullets were shot at a velocity of approx 2850 fps and the 180g Berger's were right at 2950fps.

The dope for 600 yards was exactly the same. I shot a sighter with the 190g-10 ring, no scope adjustment, I shot the 180g Berger- another 10 ring. So, I shot my first 10 shots with the 190g Matrix for a 96-5X (had a 7 when shot early due to muzzle break blast to my left). I then shot the next 10 shots with the Berger's and finished with 94-1X. My score was better with the Matrix bullets, but the conditions were tougher the second 10 shots due to mirage, so cant say that either bullet shot better.

I am pleased with the Matrix bullets. The 100 yard zero is the same, so with the Matrix bullet going 100 fps slower and having the same 600 yard dope, can we say that the BC is higher than the 180g Berger's?

Anyway, I have been pleased with the bullets thus far and plan to shoot them more. I will chime back in when I have more information. Thanks.
 

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