77 tmk for deer?

[Gary in MD]

Bringing this back up since it’s hunting season
I must admit to being more of a traditionalist and figured that the 22s were for varmits and predators. But I have noticed through the years that a lot of respectable guys have used them for deer with success. So…. One of the reasons that got an 8 twisted Tikka 22-250 last year was to do my own little controlled experiment. Medium sized doe (this morning) at about 140ish yards, 77 grain TMK through the shoulder into the opposite shoulder. She ran about 35 yards.
Obviously an example of one under controlled circumstances. Fresh venison burger coming up!

 

[LiveFire]

Bringing this back up since it’s hunting season
I must admit to being more of a traditionalist and figured that the 22s were for varmits and predators. But I have noticed through the years that a lot of respectable guys have used them for deer with success. So…. One of the reasons that got an 8 twisted Tikka 22-250 last year was to do my own little controlled experiment. Medium sized doe (this morning) at about 140ish yards, 77 grain TMK through the shoulder into the opposite shoulder. She ran about 35 yards.
Obviously an example of one under controlled circumstances. Fresh venison burger coming up!

Head over to rokslide and youll see many more examples of the 77TMK knocking deer to the dirt as well as elk and a few moose thrown in there.

 

[mike mccormick]

I hate to bring it up, but unless deer got a lot harder to kill over the years, there were sure loads of them killed in the past with a 70-80 grain lead round ball. If you put a bullet where it belongs, things just die.

 

[LiveFire]

If you put a bullet where it belongs, things just die.

Truth right here. For deer there arent many centerfire calibers that will fail to reach vitals on a broadside shot assuming the correct impact velocity. That falls on the hunter to learn and know his gear.

 

[mr45man]

I believe the 223 was designed to wound not kill the enemy.

 

[LiveFire]

I believe the 223 was designed to wound not kill the enemy.

I hear that, i see that spoken a lot. I dont see anybody ever inventing a cartridge with the intent only to wound somebody. If they wanted that they should of handed out more 45acp pistols. The tumbling, yawing and potential fragmentation of even ball 223/556 is deadlier than a pistol with fmj. The whole shoot one, now it takes two to remove him from the battlefield sounds like B.S. to me but Ive never been in combat so I'll defer to those that have.

 

[RegionRat]

I hate to bring it up, but unless deer got a lot harder to kill over the years, there were sure loads of them killed in the past with a 70-80 grain lead round ball. If you put a bullet where it belongs, things just die.

Yes, but...
That would have only been a very small muzzle loader caliber like a handgun in those days.
Even a 50 cal was considered small for blackpowder hunting before smokeless.

A 45 cal ball is about 130 grains.

It has been a long time since I muzzle loaded, but as I recall the 50 cal lead round ball was closer to 177 -180 grains and ran about 1700 fps.

When it had a muzzle velocity of about 1700 fps.... that gives a muzzle energy of 1155 ft*lbs and that is very close to the same ME as a 223.

Found a nice chart with blackpowder lead ball weights by diameter.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I believe the 223 was designed to wound not kill the enemy.

Actually, the .223 (or 5.56) was adopted by the military because shooters achieved a much higher hit rate with it than they did with the .308 (M-14). So, you had lighter ammo (a solider could carry more), in a lighter rifle (the M-16), and to top it all off, your average soldier could shoot it better.

I always find it interesting that the same people who recommend the 6.5 Grendel or .243 Rem to people looking for recommendations for kids or women, insist that nothing short of a .308 or .270 can be used if the person asking is a grown man.

Accuracy trumps everything when it comes to killing. In my experience helping hundreds of shooters, their accuracy is always better with a .223 than any of the larger chamberings. Put a suppressor on it and it gets even better.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Doesn’t America use a 77gr Sierra to bring freedom to most sandel wearing oil producing nations? If its good enough to stop them surely its good enough for a deer

 

[TaperPin]

I’m an old soul, and traditional tough bullets driven really fast has worked very well for me. If someone has suggested one day I’d be willing to use a 223 to hunt mule deer, even a year ago, I would have laughed.

At Rokslide there is a 223 thread that is very repetitive, and a bit of an echo chamber, but is a very good description of the 223 bullets and how they have performed at different impact velocities. The 77gr bullet that is the star of the show breaks up, but not like an explosive bullet for prarie dogs. The narrow cone of shrapnel is documented repetitively and while it’s still not what I’d personally use elk hunting, there are a pile of elk in the discussion.

I’m pretty sure my grandson will use the 223/77gr TMK combination on his first deer, rather than the more traditional 243.

It’s worth looking at if your curious about something new, and potentially a viable alternative to 6mm’s for a recoil shy hunter.

 

[Bamban]

I believe the 223 was designed to wound not kill the enemy.

Maybe so, but I don't think so. I would not want to be a bullet trap to one just to find out if it just wounds me...lol

 

[sandwarrior]

I believe the 223 was designed to wound not kill the enemy.

That's dead wrong. It was adopted to lay down more suppresive fire. But, kills as well or better than any other cartridge we've adopted.

 

[mr45man]

I was a DI in a BT unit 68- 70 .
That's what we were told and taught.
Shoot low.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I was a DI in a BT unit 68- 70 .
That's what we were told and taught.
Shoot low.

Well, I was told quite a bit of stuff when I was in the Navy that turned out to be wives tales and Fuddlore. Just because it is taught and repeated, doesn't make it right.

Wikipedia actually has a pretty good explanation on the development of the .223 and its actual design parameters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington