6mm br shorten to 6mm ppc capacity

[Mulligan]

This discussion makes me want to do a tall dog and leave the neck long except pushing shoulders back with my closet bench just isn't happening.
Tried it with trying to push the shoulder back on 6x47l to a 25 br to kinda do the same thing.

Look at the center case in post 17 above.
This TDI maintains the same neck length as a 6 br.
I also have a zero freebore on this reamer.

CW

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The Waldog is very close to a 222, look at the pic of the cases above. I do not think the deuce could be expanded enough to get close to a PPC let alone a BR?
CW

Isn't the Waldog a shortened PPC? I can never remember the exact numbers so won't try. Lol! Maybe .080 or .100 short?

 

[Mulligan]

Isn't the Waldog a shortened PPC? I can never remember the exact numbers so won't try. Lol! Maybe .080 or .100 short?

Yep, a Waldog pushes the neck/shoulder junction back .125”, but then blows the shoulders out to 30*. You end up with a .107” short ppc.

CW

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yep, a Waldog pushes the neck/shoulder junction back .125”, but then blows the shoulders out to 30*. You end up with a 107” short ppc.

CW

Ahh, ok. I wanted to say .125 but didn't remember it shortening. So I guess the hs is based on the 220 case and then formed, since the shoulder angle change is accounted for in the finished length?? Anthony with ABC, I think has some history with it. Maybe he'll chime in if he has time. @oliver88 I might be thinking about the TallDog but he'll set me straight if he sees this.

 

[Mulligan]

Ahh, ok. I wanted to say .125 but didn't remember it shortening. So I guess the hs is based on the 220 case and then formed, since the shoulder angle change is accounted for in the finished length?? Anthony with ABC, I think has some history with it. Maybe he'll chime in if he has time. @oliver88 I might be thinking about the TallDog but he'll set me straight if he sees this.

Dan Dowling,
The creator of the Waldog and Dasher lives just a few miles from me.
He chambered my Waldog .
I then sent some brass to JGS and had them work their magic.

I did this because it shot so well, I wanted another barrel chambered but with a .253” neck instead of the super thin stuff the sr gang likes
CW

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Dan Dowling,
The creator of the Waldog and Dasher lives just a few miles from me.
He chambered my Waldog .
I then sent some brass to JGS and had them work their magic.

I did this because it shot so well, I wanted another barrel chambered but with a .253” neck instead of the super thin stuff the sr gang likes
CW

I was thinking it was Dan but not sure enough to argue either way and there are different variants. So, I'll shut and and listen. Lol!

 

[Mulligan]

FYI, Redding still makes forming dies for the Talldog.

And

Forster shortened a 6 BRAI die for me to use for the Talldog improved.
Easy and affordable....... and very smooth.

Clay

 

[Cloudrepair]

Look at the center case in post 17 above.
This TDI maintains the same neck length as a 6 br.
I also have a zero freebore on this reamer.

CW

Is that without shortening the neck length at all?

 

[Mulligan]

Is that without shortening the neck length at all?

the overall length of the case is .085" shorter than a straight 6 BR. However the neck length is exactly the same as a Lapua 6BR Norma case.
If that makes any sense?????

CW

Edit to add pic

 

[Larry Koch]

Great stuff. I'm being educated, keep it coming.

 

[Cloudrepair]

Look at the center case in post 17 above.
This TDI maintains the same neck length as a 6 br.
I also have a zero freebore on lop

the overall length of the case is .085" shorter than a straight 6 BR. However the neck length is exactly the same as a Lapua 6BR Norma case.
If that makes any sense?????

CW

Edit to add pic

View attachment 1541277

It makes sense I just want to leave the neck the length it is after pushing the shoulder back so the neck length is lengthened the amount the shoulder is pushed back.
so say tHe shoulder is pushed back .085 the neck length increases that amount that is what I would like to leave so the neck length becomes longer that is what I'm after.
The only reason for making 25br out of 6.5x47l brass so I have a longer neck. Otherwise I would just make it out of 6br brass.

 

[NC/Br Shooter]

Does vv133 act the same in this cartridge as it does ppc?

 

[S Miller]

Was always curious about a shortened br case with a good .22 bullet on it with today’s propellants.

 

[SteveOak]

How does it shoot????

Better than his dozen or so PPC's.

 

[Mulligan]

Does vv133 act the same in this cartridge as it does ppc?

Not sure yet, this is brandy new!!!!
CW

We could ask some of the experienced fellas to chime in.
CW

 

[boltfluter]

My .22Waldog had the shoulder pushed back .100. I believe there is a .100 and .125 version of the .22Waldog. My .22Waldog is my all time favorite short range BR round hands down. Many groups shot in the low 1's. A 52gr Berger zipping along at 3450 fps from stout charge of VV133 was the ticket. When my current 6PPC barrel dies it will become a .22Waldog again. Very little recoil and tiny groups, a win win in my book. Cases are very, very hard to make, so it is not for the faint of heart. Inside boring and outside turning are required so just keep this in mind before you jump in. Have fun!
Paul

 

[Mulligan]

My .22Waldog had the shoulder pushed back .100. I believe there is a .100 and .125 version of the .22Waldog. My .22Waldog is my all time favorite short range BR round hands down. Many groups shot in the low 1's. A 52gr Berger zipping along at 3450 fps from stout charge of VV133 was the ticket. When my current 6PPC barrel dies it will become a .22Waldog again. Very little recoil and tiny groups, a win win in my book. Cases are very, very hard to make, so it is not for the faint of heart. Inside boring and outside turning are required so just keep this in mind before you jump in. Have fun!
Paul

Paul,
I push the shoulders of a 220 Russian back with a shortened 22-250 die. Then trim to length. Next, mandral and outside neck turn. Fireform. The 22-250 die is the bomb!
CW

 

[Mulligan]

Was always curious about a shortened br case with a good .22 bullet on it with today’s propellants.

I was digging around for my shop manual for my MF-35 tractor yesterday morning and came across a couple of copies of Precision Shooting from 2008. So I sat out in the spring sunshine and thumbed through both copies. This article caught my eye.

Varmint shooters and short range br gang have been wildcatting a very long time!
This is great stuff indeed.

CW

 

[boltfluter]

Paul,
I push the shoulders of a 220 Russian back with a shortened 22-250 die. Then trim to length. Next, mandral and outside neck turn. Fireform. The 22-250 die is the bomb!
CW

CW,
Exactly how I do it. The .22-250 die is the magic! I think we read the same article, lol. I just ended up with a terrible step inside the neck and had no luck pushing it to the outside. My .22Waldog has a very short throat as well. So, I fireformed with no bullet, and then used a Wilson case holder to bore the stepped neck out. Makes for a beautiful inside neck. Then onto a mandrel for outside turning. Lots of work, but those cases were magic!! Many, many groups in the low 1's. Others were having problems with the stepped neck as they didn't have access to a lathe. So I did a few for friends and magically there groups shrank down to the low 1's as well. I literally tried everything I could possibly think of to fix the problem before going to boring them out. Even ordered a custon inside neck reamer. No bueno. But boring them out was the magic touch. Not tough, unless you don't have access to a lathe. All in all a fantastic little cartridge. I will have another one soon....
Paul

 

[Mulligan]

CW,
Exactly how I do it. The .22-250 die is the magic! I think we read the same article, lol. I just ended up with a terrible step inside the neck and had no luck pushing it to the outside. My .22Waldog has a very short throat as well. So, I fireformed with no bullet, and then used a Wilson case holder to bore the stepped neck out. Makes for a beautiful inside neck. Then onto a mandrel for outside turning. Lots of work, but those cases were magic!! Many, many groups in the low 1's. Others were having problems with the stepped neck as they didn't have access to a lathe. So I did a few for friends and magically there groups shrank down to the low 1's as well. I literally tried everything I could possibly think of to fix the problem before going to boring them out. Even ordered a custon inside neck reamer. No bueno. But boring them out was the magic touch. Not tough, unless you don't have access to a lathe. All in all a fantastic little cartridge. I will have another one soon....
Paul

I can say, the first chamber I had cut, Dowling used a 22 PPC reamer held short with a .242 or 243"??? neck. That barrel had a shorter FB and I did polish the inside of the necks..... Tony Boyer style.

As you can see on the attached Walldog reamer print, I have an effective freebore of .0643", that helps keep the bullet out of the "old shoulder area" of the case neck and give a tiny bit more capacity.
With this reamer, I did have to go up in powder a touch to get the accuracy I was looking for, but that is not an issue at all.

CW