?? 600 YARD DEER KILLER ??

[rogn]

The one good comemt Ive seen in this entire thread is the note that "one has to know when not to shoot" Other than that its the typical "I can shoot an animal ethically at some preposterous range all the time" I find a great deal more substance and honesty in the first quote.

 

[LWolken]

Cliffy, It doesn't take 1200 fpe to kill a deer. Look at modern archery equipment. Not to say more is better because it is. If the military can kill the enemy at 1000+ yds with a 308 I'm sure you can kill deer at those distances.

Lance

 

[cliffy]

Rem06, Litz you say? I'm growing weary of learning long-range ballistics on my own, even with all my charts. Many ill-spent rounds equals dollars-out-of-pocket, but it's still fun trying when not dragging me into the dumps of dispair. I'm totally-wicked out to 350 yards, but 600 yards eludes my perfection of aim so severely as to not really allow me to feel super-confident OUT there. This may be a self-impossed yardage barrier. Even in the military no one expected me to shoot beyond 500 yards, yet I always managed to shoot Expert on the Combat Range. Maybe I'm a better shot than I believe I am. Cliffy

 

[cliffy]

A broadhead kills by hemorrage, not by hydraulic shock. A 600 yard archery shot is probably more difficult than a similar rifle shot which is extremely difficult at extended range. A really sharp broadhead probably won't liquify lungs and drop a beastie in its tracks. I have tons of respect for an archer who doesn't use training wheels. I volunteer to work at Compton archery events every year. I'm just a 300 yard rifle addict. Cliffy

 

[LWolken]

Cliffy,

I'm pretty sure bullets kill by hemorrage. If a bullet merely struck the target but did not penetrate the skin it would not kill them no matter what energy it hit them with. When you take any game at extreme long range the bullet is going to act more like a broadhead expanding slightly creating a smaller wound channel no fragmenting at these distances. This is why many of use varmint/target bullets to ensure expansion at lower impact velocities. Its like anything else you have to use the right tools for the job and you have to know when and when not to shoot.

Lance

 

[cliffy]

Hi Lance,
I never, even jokingly, meant to discount archery as a viable weapon, but I did mean to advance the potency of the .243 Winchester. A 100 grain Nosler Partition, after 68 years of service, still plants a deer right now, or soon after. When one can affix a 3-9x40mm scope to a bow, I'm sure range of accuracy will increase. Bleeding out a deer at 2600 fps is a certainty, so long as the hit is in a crucial area. 600 yards is the original topic, even if can't even see that far with my naked eye. I hate being naked in the eye, so I use binoculars, spotting scope, and rifle scope. Still, I find 600 yards mind-bending due to all the variables involved. We are not target-shooting in this topic, but downing a distant animule that deserves consideration regarding a painful demise when "THINGS" go amiss. A butt-shot buck is not what any sportsman wants. Practice is required in any form of hunting exercise, including STALKING. 600 yard shots at game should seldom be required. Cliffy

 

[dave7mm]

http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3739282.0.html


dave

 

[cliffy]

Almost my last post in this viable subject. Who am I kidding? A muzzle velocity of 3500 fps will keep a bullet aloft for almost a second depending on muzzle angle, which hopefully isn't too severely UP. At a 30 degree rise, wowser for added flight time, but where is that bullet going to end up? A .243 Winchester bullet should reach-out and touch something at 3 miles. Never shoot without a known backstop. Cliffy

 

[people]

Who needs 3500fps to take a long range shot? That is why they make scope bases that have elevation built in and scopes with adjustable cross hairs.

The key is accuracy not speed. Granted speed is nice but without accuracy you may as well be bowling.

 

[cliffy]

Nothing alone regarding long range shooting represents greatness. Velocity - Energy - Accuracy - Bullet, all account for something of great value toward the whole: a dead beastie. If there was one best of everything caliber - load, I'd spend less time at the range experimenting at 300 yards. Currently enamored by 85 grain Barnes TSX-BT in .243 Winchester, I've attained muzzle velocities of 3330 - 3350 fps at 70 degrees, but I expect to best that velocity through more experimentation. I don't expect an 85 grain bullet to harbor much energy at 600 yards with a SD of .206 and a BC of .333. Maybe, however, a .419 BC 90 grain Swift Scirocco II can reach out 600 yards with authority and retained velocity. Cliffy

 

[Charlie-NY]

My perfect 600yd whitetail rifle is chambered in 7STW and it works rather well in that it is accurate, easy to shoot and has good terminal effect on deer. In a short action I would be looking at a 7WSM even though you didn't necessarily want a "magnum".

 

[cliffy]

Hi Charlie from New York, I assume. Do you hunt near the TugHill area? I have a friend from there, but he may be neck deep in snow currently. Cliffy

 

[sdean]

Cliffy, exactly what did the crack "archer with training wheels mean" ?

 

[cliffy]

Sorry for unclarifed terminology! Training wheels on bows mean composite bows with wheels at the ends. Purist bow hunters don't use such devices, yet wheels reduce full draw effort greatly. Modern versus Traditional is all it means. Cliffy

 

[cliffy]

Back to 600 yard sure shoots, I have fine optics regarding my scope, I practice often throughout the year, I still find 600 yards as a beast to overcome regarding accuracy way down range. I have a super-accurate 6mm rifle, a great scope, handloaded cartridges of peerless performance, yet I cringe when aiming 600 yards at a vital spot on a deer. Maybe I'm just not sure of my ability, maybe I could get a bit closer, maybe I'm not man enough to take such a shot in confidence. What's wrong with my moxy? cliffy

 

[Shooter264]

Using the right components anyone that says a 243 is not a viable 600 yard deer cartidge obviously doesn't study ballistics as much as they should before submitting a post. Everyone would agree that a 270 is a great all around cartridge for most everything in the lower 48 with the exception of that "gotta have at least a .338 for elk" guy. Am I right? Lets take a minute and look at some ballistic data. Data is for 5000 ft 60 degrees, 10 MPH wind
1. 243 setup with an 8 twist barrel spitting a 105 VLD at 3000fps has 1000 ft lbs of energy at 625 yards while still retaining 2000 fps. Wind deflection is 3.25 MOA

2. 243 Ackley with an 8 twist barrel spitting a 105 VLD at 3225 has 1229 ft lbs of energy at 625 yards and still moving at 2296 fps. Wind deflection is 2.93 MOA

3. Now lets look at the ol 270! This 270 is shooting a 140 grain Hornady Btsp AT 2800 FPS. It has 1115 ft lbs of energy at 625 yards and velocity is down in the 1894 range for velocity. Wind deflection for this bullet is 4 MOA

A 243 is a very capable cartrige for deer at 600 yards providing that you put in the time to know your rifle and your own capabilites. A 243 Ackley is one of my favorite rifles for deer and even elk. I have killed both cleanly at ranges that exceeded 600 yards. Check out this website and give Trevor a call he can fix you up with a 243 or suitable SA cartridge that if you practice and listen to his advice will have you ethically shooting deer out to 600 yards. www.cloudpeakgunworks.com

 

[cliffy]

I hear you, Cloud. A .243 Winchester remained too under-rated for too long. Yet, asking any rifle to down an animal at 600 yards becomes a personal prowess thing. When did I last practice at 300 yards? Am I steady enough to perform at 600 yards? Can I see that far with/or without super optics? Can I compensate for all the inevitable varibles at 600 yards? Some super-souls can actually claim to do this deed at 600 yards, but too many cannot, but become willing to TRY. Cliffy

 

[Shooter264]

I think I understand where you are coming from Cliffy but it comes down to the effort a person is willing to put in to know his equipment. In my humble opinion the guy that shoots three rounds to check zero on his favorite hunting rifle once a year and then goes hunting and attempts shots at deer at 200 yards is far more unethical than the guy who shoots a minimum of 500 rounds a year, knows his equipment and it's capabilities and attempts to shoot deer at 800 yards. With the right setup and being able to read the conditions a person should be able to make that shot every time.

 

[cliffy]

You are so CORRECT, Buddy! ONLY some few shooters can actually hit a bull in the butt at 600 yards. This type of sharpshooting takes tons of PRACTICE. I tire of telling qualified people they can do it, when SO many hunters should not even attempt IT. Six hundred yard HUNTING is not for nine out of ten people: get real. Know your limits, because if you don't: a hundred yards is your limit. If your scope is not dead-on at a hundred, fifty-yards could easily be your limit. As a "sight-in-day" range safety officer, assisting in the myriad of "click" adjustments required to adequately kill a deer at a hundred yards, I fully realize MANY hunters require the assistance of dedicated people at the range. Cliffy

 

[zcrackshot]

Depends on you and your tolerance to recoil. Half the guys who have replied have said you should choose one of the WSM's. Alot of people consider WSM's as magnums, I know Winchester does; hence the M in WSM. You said you wanted to shoot daily right? If you need a round that fits in a short action then you have to decide whether you need a round that will shoot through school buses or just kill deer. 600 yards isn't a chip shot for anything that fits a short action without a long bullet of high BC. Ask what bullet is best to use and you'll hear WW3 break out. In my opinion (and it's just that, an opinion) you need a high BC to ease hitting your target at that range. A 6.5 (.264) caliber bullet fits that bill better than anything that doesn't invite over 25 lbs of felt recoil along for the ride. Do you need a repeater or are you willing to load your short action after each shot? A 6.5x284 with a VLD type bullet will easily reach the 600 yrd mark or farther and is a very inherently accurate caliber but it won't fit a short action with VLD style bullets. It's what I use for mule deer out to 1200 yards but mine is also built on a long action to be a repeater. It deals out less felt recoil than my 308 which weighs the exact same and will easily reach farther. Anyways, I hope this was helpful. Good luck with your build and have fun with it.