?? 600 YARD DEER KILLER ??

[cliffy]

Hi Nodak, the "Cheers" postman was named "Cliff." Which brings to one of the facts that he would blurt-out: Maximum Point Blank Range means the elevation and drop within 2-3" up and down equals MPBR. Much beyond MPBR, most shooters get lost in the abyss of gravity, related to trajectory. Six hundred yard "Newby Hunters" will find gravity as an enemy of accuracy. When a bullet starts this decent into oblivion, only the quarry suffers, or is lucky to be cleanly missed. As previously-stated, only the special few well-practiced shooters can actually hit their intended target at 600 yards. Cliffy

 

[alf]

Cliffy,

With your ability, or obviously, lack there of, to shoot beyond 300 yards, your ideals should not be thrust upon others.

With todays technology in firearms, optics, bullets , and all other related equipment, MPBR is not even in the equation. Wind is the enemy. Practice and knowledge of your equipment is your friend.

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Gentlemen, and I don't throw that term around loosely, we all need to "respect" one another on this website and forum. We are all patrons of this wealth of knowledge here, whether it be imparted or taken. If "you" do not agree with someones opinion or view on a specific topic, then maybe the best thing to do is to agree to disagree and leave all the bitching and bickering to the ladies in the sewing circles. This particular thread has turned out to be a battle of egos and swelled up prides. Pride is a MF, if anyone knows I know. Sometimes though we have to place principles before personalities and here as of late I have been seeing alot of personalities and very few principles.

For the record, I am not taking any sides on this matter because I don't have a dog in this fight. This forum is for Gentlemen and we all should conduct ourselves as such!

Thanks, Mike Houseworth

 

[squirrelduster]

Mike is right, we need a little respect for each other.

So whether you agree with Cliffy or not is not the issue. We are all shooters and need to stick together. We have enough trouble without fighting among ourselves.

 

[therifler]

Hifarmview read the posts up to the one where you told us where you lived . Now i can form and answer based on that . Sounds like you have made your mind up 243 - 7mm08 neither of which i would choose for my own reasons . For you I would say 7mm08 140 gr bullets this will get the job done . It sounds like a bad hit at 600yards should not hurt you to bad since can see for miles tracking should'nt be and issue . mike

 

[cliffy]

Hi Michael, no one cannot see forever in the "rifle zones" of Michigan, maybe 75 yards. Southwestern and Southern Michigan are populated with enough people to make it shotgun slug and muzzleloader ONLY territory. Woods are too dense for long shots, as no bean fields exist in the "Yooper." We, in Michigan, are fortunate to have a really great Governor Grandholm. She cares about the future of hunting in Michigan. Much as would President Palin would enhance the hunting paradise of the rest of the country. Six hundred yard shooting is relegated to the West, such as in my beloved Wyoming stomping grounds where one can stomp for many miles of open Red Desert land. Sandy Reservoir is my favorite fishin' hole, and Flaming Gouge Reservoir is encompassed within the most beautiful country on earth. Still I cannot see myself aiming at a beasty 600 yards away, so I "Have Gun:Will Travel" to get closer. Cliffy

 

[model 12 toby]

I'm not sure but I don't get any noticeable kick out of my savage model 12 f/tr 7 mm rem mag and it's in short action. I have to remove the bolt if i don't fire off the shot to remove ammo. I'm not sure whered ud be hunting but I'd imagine ud get to a stationary spot and be shooting from a BI POD. I plan on hunting with it this spring. probably mostly long range varmint but who knows? I've been lifting to get ready. =)

 

[Bergonzi]

6.5 caliber, 140 grain Berger in 6.5x284 with R17. Or, 7mm in 284 Win., or 280 Rem. AI. Even with the best scope and best tuned custom rifle 600 shots can only be made by very experienced riflemen under hunting conditions. Try jumping around at your bench for 30 seconds to get your heart rate up and then either shoot prone or cross legged with a tripod. Only accept the X as a successful hit in order to correspond to a 600 shot. Make sure when you do this there is at least a 10 mile an hour wind blowing. If you hit the X one in five shots, you might be able to cleanly kill a deer at the distance you are talking, but, you're going to wound it the other four even with a decent shot. For what it's worth....you should be able to get closer to almost any deer than 600 yards.

Bergonzi
Hunting is what I do.

 

[ballistic64]

Hi Nodak, the "Cheers" postman was named "Cliff." Which brings to one of the facts that he would blurt-out: Maximum Point Blank Range means the elevation and drop within 2-3" up and down equals MPBR. Much beyond MPBR, most shooters get lost in the abyss of gravity, related to trajectory. Six hundred yard "Newby Hunters" will find gravity as an enemy of accuracy. When a bullet starts this decent into oblivion, only the quarry suffers, or is lucky to be cleanly missed. As previously-stated, only the special few well-practiced shooters can actually hit their intended target at 600 yards. Cliffy

No serious long range hunter would even remotely consider using MPBR as a system for thier hunting shots

 

[JCHEDJ]

Being an AVID 7MM-08 devotee I am glad to read a common sense post to other readers.

I can only claim accuracy to 300 yds as that is the longest range in my area of Waco TX.
.536 inch 5 shot bench rest group

West TX deer and antelope up to 275 yds were taken with 140 gr Spitzer Boat Tail Bullets and H 414 powder. Mag Rifle Primers.
Mule deer were harvested at 225 yds with 162 gr A MAx and IMR 4895 powder standard rifle CCI primers.

I own two 30-06 rifles , one for bench rest ( Savage BVSS ) and one for hunting ( Remington 700 BDL ).

The older I get the more I like the 7MM-08 ( .284 " )Remington 700 BDL Varminter .

Once again , Thank you for your common sense post.

 

[therifler]

farmview, i think i weighed in on this before go with the
7mm 08. If you get a bad shot on one this round will give you alittle room for error . Not to say you are not a good shooter. But wind is a tricky call what is happening in your ear might be quite diferent 400yds . out .

 

[cliffy]

Farmview, look at all the controversy you've created to the tune of nearly 3500 hits! Yes: some people can, but most cannot shoot accurately at 600 yards. A lot of serious practice is required to do so, but most people will not expend the rounds needed to attain such prowess. Not wanting to rehash the many great replies to your topic, I merely bow to your super question. Cliffy

 

[65BR]

FWIW, my longest deer kill:

6BR/105 AMAX, 400 yds, double lunged, went <25 yds post hit.

Golf ball sized exit.

Accuracy (read shot PLACEMENT) + bullet that will expand = success.

 

[Bergonzi]

I say pick the bullet first, then the cartridge. For longer distances I have gone to the 6.5's. I like the 140 Berger hunting VLD. You can rely on it at 600 yards to be both accurate and deadly. I also like the 140 Accubond. My next choice would be the 7mm's using 150 Scirocco II's, or the 160 Sierra GK's. Keep in mind that you want to take home as much meat as possible. Too much power leads to ruined meat. I would say any cartridge that moves these bullits at around 2900 fps is what you would benefit in most ways from.

I want to add that I am against shooting game at these ranges also unless you have developed a completely reliable skill set to deal with the problems that are "way out there". I've hunted for over fifty years now and have never taken a shot over 400 yards. It has never been necessary. I do practice regularly out to 700 yards just to be prepared however. No harm in that.

Bergonzi
I'm just a hunter.

 

[Rem06]

i have no doubt farmview created this post to stir you guys up.He came to our hunting side and disappeared pretty fast,i think he's having more fun here.

i will report something to cliffy,162Amax is one hell of a good hunting bullet at long range as are berger vld.If you don't want to hunt long range,just move over and let us do it,don't tell us we can't because we are doing it very well.

i will agree that there are very many shooters out there that do not have the knowledge or training to perform an accurate long range one shot kill.there are many that do! how many times have you seen a beginner take a shot at a 1000yd tgt? with help he can do it.without? good luck! same thought here on hunting.newby tossing lead,shame on him.with proper knowledge and practice,huge difference.

personally i blame that on "bdc scope advertisement" just circle it for range and send it! NOT!!!

as for your comment on using a "hunting bullet" there is your reason for missing,low BC. i wouldn't even consider using a "hunting bullet" over 500yds and definately would grab a berger vld or Amax! with one exception i can think of right now,Accubond.

 

[cliffy]

BC is a great guide to prolonged sustainability in flight, yet gravity will foil MOST attempts are way-out-there shots. We are talking HUNTING here and not paper punching at rediculous range. Foot/Pounds of Energy of 1200 foot pounds of force is considered the minimum for killing a deer-sized animal at whatever down-range measurement. With so many on-line ballistics calculators available, guesswork should be nearly eliminated. As bullet drop becomes evident throughout these great charts, I still find bullet performance challenging as distance becomes obscene. Cliffy

 

[Rem06]

With so many on-line ballistics calculators available, guesswork should be nearly eliminated.

have you read Brian Litz new book? Well worth the reading.Long range hunting is truely is challenging but can be done very ethically.There are so many people out there that think they can just get one of the new long range scopes with the lines or dots out to 600yds(which we're talking here)and a flat shooting bug boomer caliber and they're good to go.If they only knew the truth,the wind is a huge factor.Knowing when to pass on that long shot is even more important.

keep it in the 10 ring,we'll keep-em in the vitals ;D

 

[Chuckhunter]

Farmview, I'm not going to make any judgements as to the ethics of a 600yd. shot. Ballistically speaking, I would seriously look at on of the 6.5 Calibers. The 6.5X47, 6.5X284 and the sweede will all dropless and drift less and hit with more energy at 600yds, according to my Oehler Ballistics program using a 140Gr, Sierra GK for the 7-08 and 130 Bergers for the 6.5's. At 600 yds. drift is more likely to cause a miss than the amount of drop providing you know the your M.V. and have a dependable range finder. I personally have a 6.5X47 Lapua and it will shoot under an inch at 300 yds. I practice on a 480yd. range and can hit the vitals every time so that is my limit. Take a good look at the ballistic comparisons and it should clear things up a bit. The ethic's of the shot is always the hunters decision. Good Luck ..................Chuckhunter

 

[savageboy]

I agree that the drift is the real deal maker or breaker in LR shooting. The drop can be dialed in once the range is known (along w/ the atmospheric conditions, etc). But the wind that the bullet goes thru- i.e. 20' above your head where the bullet is for awhile on its way to a LR target, how long a particular condition has been acting on the bullet, etc. all come into play.

 

[30378]

I would have to go with the 6.5x284 with 130gr Bergers.