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45 caliber smokeless muzzleloader

Yes, the Mesa is the way to go on these in my opinion. Defiance makes one too, but for the money I like the Mesa. Been using them more and more for regular builds too. Not every rifle needs to have a $2k action. This rifle is going to @tom so I wont be doing any load development but Im sure he will start a thread when he gets to it. I think hes going to run a 275 with H4198 around 70 grains or so. I dont think thats a hot load but these things are not going to show pressure signs like we are used to seeing so I think its smart to not push the limits. Some of the things guys are doing with these things scares the hell out of me.
 
@Ccrider good for you and your deal with Luke. What you're doing or possibly getting away with doesn't guarantee it's legal. How would you know if your rifle was logged in and out or not? A 4473 isn't needed when you send a personal firearm in for modification or repair. Every bolt action muzzle loader action I've purchased from either Luke or Mesa has had a 4473 processed before I could take possession of it. Dealers handle it just like any other serial numbered action.
 
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Riesel said:
Didn't really think felons were into single shot rifle
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There are a lot of ways to get convicted of a felony that are not violent or in any way connected to weapons that then would remove your right to recreational use of firearms for the rest of your life. The most common/unsuspecting would be behind the wheel of a car.
 
Riesel, In the 80s and 90s down in this end of the world LEOs paid such little interest in small scale dope smugglers that it was almost as if they did not care. Some of the guys that I went to high school with decided it was easier than commercial fishing which was the choice of many at that time. The law enforcement community changed its thinking and decided to put an end to it and rolled up a bunch of them. None of the group I went to high school with were ever armed, when the Bahamians got violent some hired security. But armed or not they were all charged with a felony. Thats been many years and the one I am close to has never done anything since to anger the law. He is safer at handling a firearm than most anyone I know. After all these years I think he should have his rights restored.
 
Alex Wheeler said:
Yes, the Mesa is the way to go on these in my opinion. Defiance makes one too, but for the money I like the Mesa. Been using them more and more for regular builds too. Not every rifle needs to have a $2k action. This rifle is going to @tom so I wont be doing any load development but Im sure he will start a thread when he gets to it. I think hes going to run a 275 with H4198 around 70 grains or so. I dont think thats a hot load but these things are not going to show pressure signs like we are used to seeing so I think its smart to not push the limits. Some of the things guys are doing with these things scares the hell out of me.
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IMHO, 70 is a hot load. I'm using 63.5 of H4198 and CCI mag primers and the 275 Pittman Accumax. Chrono MV is 2735. Zeroed at 100 meters, drop at 500 meters is 16 moa, 1100 ft. lbs at 650 meters. Below is a test session that landed off the paper with that load at 500 meters, a skosh under 3", three shots. I have a bud who shoots in the 70 gr. load regime and he told me it pounds him. I have an MBM 5 port Nathan bored for a .45 ML and a RAD. I'm a lightweight but can still shoot it with a T shirt.
Edit: I size the bullets .4502
 

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Great gun! I like the barrel contour much better than any others I’ve seen.

I never thought much about muzzleloaders, but the lines of this rifle remind me of a safari gun. I can totally get excited imagining a blued gun with express sights, banded barrel sling stud, and old school wood stock.
 
Mulligan said:
I’m fascinated with what I am reading on this thread about this smokeless muzzleloader. I had no clue about them at all.
@Alex Wheeler thanks for posting.
CW
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Not all states allow them in muzzle loader season. So you have to read up on the laws. In Montana for example they only allow primitive muzzleloaders. So, iron sights, external hammer, no sabots, loose black powder only or a substitute. So basicly a recipe for as many wounded elk as possible.
 
Alex Wheeler said:
Not all states allow them in muzzle loader season. So you have to read up on the laws. In Montana for example they only allow primitive muzzleloaders. So, iron sights, external hammer, so sabots, black powder only or a substitute. So basiclly a recipe for as many wounded elk as possible.
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In Colorado,
Our primitive season or muzzle loader season- open sights, granulated black powder or substitute (no pellets or smokeless), open (exposed) ignition system, full caliber round balls or slugs (no sabots). It really is a primitive weapon season designed for 100 yard shooting…….. but it is during the rut.

These rifles like the one you built for Tom could be used during the other rifle seasons without issue.

My son hunts during a short range rifle season in ID, I wonder if this bad boy could be used for that hunt?
CW
 
Mulligan said:
In Colorado,
Our primitive season or muzzle loader season- open sights, granulated black powder or substitute (no pellets or smokeless), open (exposed) ignition system, full caliber round balls or slugs (no sabots). It really is a primitive weapon season designed for 100 yard shooting…….. but it is during the rut.

These rifles like the one you built for Tom could be used during the other rifle seasons without issue.

My son hunts during a short range rifle season in ID, I wonder if this bad boy could be used for that hunt?
CW
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Having the primitive season in the rut would make a big difference. In Mt. its after the general gun. So it brutal cold. Too cold to sit and that time of year a lot of the elk winter in pretty open country. So putting a stalk on isnt easy. My bet is very few elk are taking in that season and I bet half are never recovered.
 
They kill on one end and maim on the other. I'm afraid other states will realize the long range characteristics and outlaw their use. The reason muzzleloaders were allowed in some states at all and around populated areas was because it was thought their range was 100 yards. I want one but no advantage to owning one as they have to be used during regular rifle season.
 
img_5076.jpegIMG_1674.jpeg
These things are crazy accurate, couple 40 cal groups.
I think if the bolt has lugs, it has to go through an FFL. The early Savage ML 1s had lugs and used a module and had to go through an FFL. To get around the 4473, they changed to a bolt without lugs that held a 209 primer on a slotted bolt face, along the lines of what the Mesa, Defiance Outkast, and Kelbly built Obsidian that Arrowhead sells now, but the bolts are slotted for modern modules and have lugs.
 
I've been shooting 70 grains of H4198 with a 275 in my 45 cal Arrowhead rifle with a break on it, and it's pretty easy to shoot..
Lent it to a friend to hunt with this year and he is amazed at how accurate it is at 200 yards., but he is usually shooting a 336 Marlin in 30-30.......
 
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Ccrider said:
All depends on the action its built on.
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I was told the ML had to be pre 1887 style to be legal for "some felons" to own by my attorny. I was asking for a friend.
 
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I plan on getting my Remington Ultimate ML changed to 45 cal smokeless at some point.
 
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