Smokeless Muzzleloader Build

[Jonathan Zimmerman]

John,

You are right on with the priming system, I am hoping to reuse them many times. When it comes to bullets, there is only one real source that I am aware of. Parker Productions out of Idaho, and Bob Parker was great to deal with. He has a 300 and 325 grain Math Hunter bullet that are higher BC bullets than the 275 Ballistic Extreme that I am shooting. He told me for longer range, either of those would be better. They come at a price though, they are about $2 a bullet. Listen to me, I build a $1500 dollar rifle and am worried about an extra dollar per shot...... I guess that is pretty funny. I'll get over it, and switch to one of them in the spring. Most guys are running a 1-20" twist on these muzzleloaders, but mine is an 1-18" twist. It handles the 275's fine, and I am sure will make the heavier bullets fly better than a 20 twist. I cut it down from 30" to 28" while it was on the lathe. It just looked too long to hunt with, and that was without the brake. Again, that is personal choice but most custom smokeless muzzleloaders that I have checked into have 30" barrels. Krieger had mine in stock, it just had to be recontoured. You will need a 0.450 bore/ 0.458 groove barrel for these bullets. I could go on, just shoot me an email anytime. I feel your pain on the deer walking at 300, that is exactly why I built this rifle. Jonathan

 

[bozo699]

Jonathan,
This is a very interesting thread and you have done a excellent job of replying to everybody, you should have done a full write up and ask Paul to publish it on his daily bulletin. Parker productions is just a few miles from where I live, and I have to learn about them on a forum conversation ??? I am going to give them a call I am interested in some of there bullets for my smoke poles, take care and enjoy your new build.
Wayne.

 

[wvuredneck09]

Couldn't agree more Bozo, with the details he has given I could write up an article based on this thread.

 

[bozo699]

Couldn't agree more Bozo, with the details he has given I could write up an article based on this thread.

Absolutely
I have always loved your signature, I laugh my a** off every time I see a post you have written.
Wayne.

 

[liltank]

Do you measure your powder charges by volume like a regular ML or do you weigh your charges? What size charges are you using?

 

[Jonathan Zimmerman]

I covered the powder in an earlier post, I believe on the same page here. All charges are being weighed on my scale down to the last tenth of a grain like any centerfire load. I have to weigh them ahead of time and store them in little containers until I hit the range. Thank you Wayne and "wvuredneck" for your kind comments. Jonathan

 

[expiper]

HI Jonathan.....your info here certainly opens up the possibility of long rante ML hunting.....culd you tell us what the length of the 308 case is cut/trimmed to??....and when pouring the powder down the bbl...is the bolt closed on a case with a live primer in it!!??and do you "tamp" it like with black powder???before seating the bullet.,,,,, Thank YOU ...Roger

 

[Jonathan Zimmerman]

To answer one of your questions, I do not drop powder on a primed muzzleloading rifle ever. You can choose to leave a fired case against the nipple if you feel that it needs to be done. Quite honestly, I do not even do that. The hole in the nipple is so small, I have not seen any powder in the chamber area. I do not tamp the powder either, pour it down the barrel and load. I would recommend contacting Richard Franklin again, and ordering the DVD set. He goes over all of the information you will need to build this rifle, and I only feel right about giving him the credit for taking the time to explain in detail how to do this in the series. Take care. Jonathan

 

[tnhunter]

Love it!

 

[Jonathan Zimmerman]

I should also add that there was a whitetail killed in Virginia a week or so ago at over 750 yards (I believe it was 768) with one of these smokeless muzzleloaders. The hunter who made the shot has shared some information with me over the phone, and with his muzzleloader he is getting ~1" groups at 300 yards. He has also shot his out to 1000 yards, and had very impressive groups! He said they have killed quite a few deer in the 400-500 yard range also. That should give you some insight on the real potential of what these can do. Tomorrow morning will be the first time hunting with this rifle, hopefully something works out. Jonathan

 

[elmerdeer]

I should also add that there was a whitetail killed in Virginia a week or so ago at over 750 yards (I believe it was 768) with one of these smokeless muzzleloaders. The hunter who made the shot has shared some information with me over the phone, and with his muzzleloader he is getting ~1" groups at 300 yards. He has also shot his out to 1000 yards, and had very impressive groups! He said they have killed quite a few deer in the 400-500 yard range also. That should give you some insight on the real potential of what these can do. Tomorrow morning will be the first time hunting with this rifle, hopefully something works out. Jonathan

That is awsome to be able to take those shots! How much would it cost to build one of these muzzleloaders?Goodluck on your hunt!
Thanks
Elmer

 

[bozo699]

Best of luck in the morning Jonathan
Wayne.

 

[JayCutright]

Custom 40X Muzzle Loader

I'm not trying to hi-jack yer thread but I had these pix over in the "show off your s.o.b." thread and thought I'd post them here since you brought this up.
I built this one last fall, it has filled several tags but nothing over 240 yards. I shot a doe in the chest at 175yd and the bullet went all the through and out the back end, I have yet to recover a bullet.
I'm shooting the 325 gr Parker with an Ox-yoke "Wonder Wad" over 72gr of IMR4198. The load data for the 458 Winchester looks about right for most of these rifles, my load produces velocity right in the mid range of a 460 Weatherby with 300-350gr bullets, these are "extreme" muzzle loaders.

 

[JayCutright]

I'm planning another build on a Win70 action with a shorter barrel soon, I'm contemplating selling this one.

Here's some details...
Krieger 1-20 Twist barrel 29" long.
Modified Harrells aluminum brake.
Jewell trigger
Burris Tactical Rings & Bases
Sightron SII 4-16x42 HHR

 

[bozo699]

As usual Jay,..Beautiful work, wished I wasn't in the middle of three different builds,... or it would be my beautiful new smokeless pole and you could build yourself a nicer one
Wayne.

 

[Jonathan Zimmerman]

Jay, No need to worry about hijacking a thread of mine. I did see your rifle about a month ago, you did a very nice job with it. After carrying mine around for the morning, I can see why you may want a shorter lighter version. In all reality, 400-500 yard shots don't present themselves around here too often. I am willing to bet that being able to shoot 300 is all I will probably need. There is always a trade off though when you make these rifles shorter and lighter. I do not have anything spectacular to report, but I did shoot a nice doe at 191 yards. Actually, 4 of them came out at 50 yards and I had to wait for them to make it across the field for the shot. I was hoping for a further shot, but I know what it will do already. I shot from on top of the ridge behind me in the picture. The bullet was not recovered, I believe it totally came apart on the inside. After looking at the chest cavity, it was clear that the bullet did its job very well. I could not find an exit wound on the opposite side, but never found the bullet. Anyway, the picture is from my cell phone so it is not that clear. I am thankful for the meat.

Jonathan

 

[Longshooter70]

Great job, Jonathan! Good shooting and nice doe!

John

 

[bozo699]

Jay, No need to worry about hijacking a thread of mine. I did see your rifle about a month ago, you did a very nice job with it. After carrying mine around for the morning, I can see why you may want a shorter lighter version. In all reality, 400-500 yard shots don't present themselves around here too often. I am willing to bet that being able to shoot 300 is all I will probably need. There is always a trade off though when you make these rifles shorter and lighter. I do not have anything spectacular to report, but I did shoot a nice doe at 191 yards. Actually, 4 of them came out at 50 yards and I had to wait for them to make it across the field for the shot. I was hoping for a further shot, but I know what it will do already. I shot from on top of the ridge behind me in the picture. The bullet was not recovered, I believe it totally came apart on the inside. After looking at the chest cavity, it was clear that the bullet did its job very well. I could not find an exit wound on the opposite side, but never found the bullet. Anyway, the picture is from my cell phone so it is not that clear. I am thankful for the meat.

Jonathan

All I can say is bravo Rare anymore to see a hunter,...a true sportsman, out here for the meat and the love of the sport,....not bragging rights for the biggest set of antlers. The world needs more people like you in it, sounds like a typical hunt my dad would have made. Congrats on the nice deer with your new rifle
Wayne.

 

[expiper]

HI Jay.....nice work....is the lil funnel to prevent powder from escaping thur the muzzle break while loading.??...and how do you keep the powder from running out the breech without a primer/brass in place....just curious....wow these things have .458 power!!!.....lots of folks around here use muzzle loaders ...and I am thinkin of something like this...any info would be apreciated....Roger

 

[JayCutright]

My rifle has a breach plug and a nipple just like the commercial muzzle loaders. I use a shortened lapua 243 winchester case with a 215 fed for a primer.
The plug, nipple & case together as an assembly are headspaced so there is enough pressure to seal the nipple directly against the brass primer holder. I get no gas leakage what so ever.
The primer will flatten out under pressure just like a center fire.
Its a good idea and it makes for a safe rifle.