243win vs. 6creedmoor
- Thread starter Dusty Stevens
- Start date
He shoot in "Open" and runs a 6 Creedmoor. Pretty sure he get free barrels too
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
He shoot in "Open" and runs a 6 Creedmoor. Pretty sure he get free barrels too
Well yah. I assume a lot of these guys are getting free stuff. I saw how common Surgeon was, I never see their actions used anywhere. Total niche market.
Surgeon more popular than you think, maybe it is a "niche" market as you call it, but then we need to call Bat, Borden, etc. niche also.
Defiance is losing their grip on PRS as more actions hit the market, and they are damn good actions too.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
who's the next taking over? anybody use those mausingfields?
Mausingfields are really good actions, but aren't that prevalent due to cost and availability I believe. Bighorn has been popular because of similar features and a lower price. A few new players are Impact Precision and Lone Peak. Lots of buzz and good stories regarding those. Defiance still probably outsells them and Defiance also builds OEM actions for builders. Kelby's is pushing harder into the market and should be picking up sales. I think they all do a great job and often people are splitting hairs on which is better. I am a Bighorn fan, they were originally designed and built here in Colorado by a great guy. They are now in built Nebraska (though mine still say Colorado) and continue with the quality that started the company. Both Bighorn and American Rifle Company (Mausingfield) have introduced less expensive actions this year (sub $1k). I think they will be very popular if they work as promised and deliver on-time.
Surgeon screwed the pooch years ago by not delivering actions and having a wait-list that was unacceptable. They opened the door for competition and the competition too advantage. They made a huge push last year with their PRS team and promotion. Unfortunately I think they may have screwed the pooch again with that success this year. I think they be their own worst enemy. Time will tell. Nobody really complains about their product, the product is good.
If you're asking me, I'm in no position to predict that. I'm sure the opinions of the builders of the rifles carry some hefty weight.
I personally cannot stand the what the pros use part of that page, and word is there will be no 2018 version. It has changed dramatically since day one, and always will, no use being a yr behind, lol
That kind of covers it. Early 2000s the .308 was it and then Jim Clark and Terry Cross started using .260s and beating us all and then we started in with the .243 in 2004 and around 2008 when the 6.5 Creedmoor came out it started becoming popular and getting more shooters in as they didn't have to load to shoot matches. Then around 2012, when the "PRS" actually started, the 6 Creed came in. Now it's the Dasher that people are swooning over. All those cartridges are being used now in matches so pick one and go.
Bottom line is any of those can win matches. It comes down to the shooter. Don't think going from a .260, .243 or 6.5 Creed etc to a 6 Dasher will win you a match. It won't.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
And you would be wrong. Timed stages with targets from 50 to 1200 yards, some with required reloads, some with over 10 round strings of fire on multiple targets with no wind flags. (did I mention timed, hits count and fast matters) Go browse some U tube and see what it is all about.
That picture is a little misleading as it doesn't give specifics and that 6 Creed is loaded very long. At 2.800 factory length with the 108 ELDs I am .020" off the lands.
Some years back, Surgeon actions were really popular in the UK, so popular they were the number one choice by rifle builders who specialised in 'tactical' rifles. Then, the supply cut off abruptly, for no obvious or apparently valid reason. It may have been ITAR hassle, but we'd received them for some considerable time after ITAR started.
I've no idea how valid this is, but there was speculation at the time that Surgeon either had obtained or thought it had obtained a US Dept of Defense contract. We've seen several promising lines from a range of specialist companies suddenly stop exports from the US without explanation, often without the courtesy of replying to phone calls or emails, as soon as DoD work was in the offing.
(In this case, it did the UK a LOT of good - we now have at least two in country action manufacturers who also export them to the rest of Europe, and elsewhere for all I know. An ill wind ... and all that! The same applies to stocks where in-country suppliers have replaced some US products)
JaoeyP
Silver $$ Contributor
I've read this article and he makes some fair points. To the OPs original question as to what the 6mm Creedmoor does that the 243 doesn't I'd say handle super long high BC bullets at mag length better and given manufacturers a viable 6mm platform for fast twist rates and higher BC ammo. A 243 can do most of what the 6mm Creedmoor can do, but it will likely be a custom rifle and handloaded ammo. For a lot of the forum members here, custom rifles and handloaded ammo is their preference in any caliber, but for the new to average shooter who wants a factory rifle and who either doesn't handload or who must have factory ammo options the 6mm Creedmoor today is the better platform. I've said it before, perception becomes rraluty. 243 is a medium game to hunting cartridge for most Shooters, 6mm Creedmoor is a long range target round based on the factory rifles and ammo offered. There isn't that much actual difference in the CAPABILITIES of the two cartridges. I contacted Sierra Bullets last fall asking which cartridge was better if I were building a rifle specifically to shoot the 110 SMK. Their response was that the Creedmoor had a slight advantage if mag length were an issue, but otherwise the two are so similar just pick one and go with it.
I agree with the sentiments, but did you notice the dates in this now old 6mmBR.com cartridge guide to the 243?
Match Bullets
With enough powder capacity to drive the 0.585 BC 115gr DTACs at 3150+ fps, the .243 Win is an outstanding long-range cartridge. George Gardner of GA Precision recently won the long-range Shumway Cup segment of the 2006 Snipers’ Hide Cup shooting a straight .243 Win. In so doing, George bested Terry Cross (.260 Rem) and David Tubb (6XC), so you can see the .243 is a top performer at long distances. In fact, in terms of Wind Drift, a .243 running 115s at 3150 fps beats both the .260 Rem (2850 fps) and the 6.5-284 (2950 fps) running 142 MatchKings.
This may all have been just so in 2006, but since then several new cartridges and bullets have appeared.
Not saying you did it personally but just saying from personal experience using it and a .243. Also if you look at those other loads they look like light for caliber bullets especially the .308 with that cannulured bullet. Seems like the author has a axe to grind as well with the 6 creed.
Here is a picture(L to R) of the factory 178 Superformance .308, factory 140 ELD-M 6.5 Creedmoor, factory 108 ELD-M 6mm Creedmoor and my handloaded .243 with 105 BTHP at .020" off lands. No axe here. I like all of them and shoot all of them.
Exactly. Some of us have been doing it long enough to know the ebb and flow of cartridges. As I mentioned it went from the .260 to the .243 when people saw the advantage of flatter shooting as back then we weren't given all the ranges at matches like today.
Looking at that circa 2006 report from the cartridge guide made me smile Rob. I don't shoot PRS (or rather any of the the UK equivalents) being a traditional gravel belly type (F-Class in my case), but if I did, I've not the slightest doubt that up against George Gardiner, Terry Cross, and David Tubb, a snowflake in hell would have a better chance than me! ..... and which of the 10 or whatever cartridges they or I chose wouldn't make the least difference to my chances. ( .......... unless they all opted for .22LR of course! 
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