Another .243 vs 6XC vs 6mm Creedmoor discussion

[J.d. Popkes]

what are you saying most5 of us 'competitors' are just a bunch of stupid sheep? That's a winning argument. It probably has/had more to do with available components

Yes

 

[sandwarrior]

Reasonable Barrel "Life", is important to us older Folks on, Fixed Incomes and,..
Once I build, an accurate Rifle, then find best Load for barrel, then "Verify" that Load at, the several "Ranges" used,..
( 200, 500, 6- 700 yards, etc. ) I DON'T want to think about, replacing the Barrel, for a while ( Just Me ).
The EXTRA, 500 to 800 accurate shots, that I expect to get out of, My 6 XC are WHY, I built it, in the First Place.
And,. The 6 Creedmoor hasn't Won, near the Bling that, the 6 XC has !
The only advantage I see is for, the NON reloader, that's buying 6 Creed Factory ammo to,.. "Play" with.

Good point. While I don't see a lot of 6mm XC's on the line. Tubb won one or two national titles with it. No fairy dust on that one. All you have to do is follow what he says and he gives a reason for everything he did with it. So, I'm not saying he's wrong. It's just not as 'off the shelf' so to speak, as the 6/6.5 Creedmoor.
Of note, it was Tubb that pushed the 6mm's for long range, so in a way the 6mm Creed got it's start there.

And FWIW, barrels may be expendable, but I don't load up to toss them all the time. Accuracy changes with each barrel, so why not keep the accuracy you have for as long as you can.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

At least 4, 1,000 yard Championships were Won with, the 6 XC, a Few years, ago.
One each by, German Salazar and Dennis DeMille and, Tubb won 2,.. at least.
In Europe, the 300 Meter was Won by, the Swiss or Swedish ( IIRC ).
Only a couple of, 6 MM's are, more accurate than, the 6 XC and, the 6 Creed,.. ain't, one of them.

 

[sandwarrior]

At least 4, 1,000 yard Championships were Won with, the 6 XC, a Few years, ago.
One each by, German Salazar and Dennis DeMille and, Tubb won 2,.. at least.
In Europe, the 300 Meter was Won by, the Swiss or Swedish ( IIRC ).
Only a couple of, 6 MM's are, more accurate than, the 6 XC and, the 6 Creed,.. ain't, one of them.

accuracy isn't about the case, it's about the precision a rifle is put together with and how precise the ammo is built. Along with how well a shooter can discipline themselves to actually accomplish accuracy records. FTR, the 300m records are held by the 6BR. Not the 6XC. The 1000 yd. record is held by the 6mm BRA.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

accuracy isn't about the case, it's about the precision a rifle is put together with and how precise the ammo is built. Along with how well a shooter can discipline themselves to actually accomplish accuracy records

So a really well put together 30-40 Krag is a great option. Any case? Good to know in case I need to go be a record setting competitor.

 

[Frankr]

I think maybe you forget. The 6XC came about over years of development trying to improve on the 243 win short comings. No torch effect, able to seat a VLD bullet above the neck shoulder junction and still feed through an unmodified short action. As accurate as the 6BR with the speed of the 243. The final result of years and a few 100 thousand rounds is the 6XC. I found it to work as advertised. The two I built were the most accurate versatile Rifles I ever had and I’m completely sold. If you knew the actual history there is no debate the 6 XC is the best. You can shoot what ever you like for whatever reason you like but I’m sure if you spent a few years and few 100 thousand rounds you would say you know you guys were right. Save yourself the trouble.
It is the only cartridge in history to shoot a perfect score in NRA high power.
Has won many championships

 

[urbanrifleman]

I think maybe you forget. The 6XC came about over years of development trying to improve on the 243 win short comings. No torch effect, able to seat a VLD bullet above the neck shoulder junction and still feed through an unmodified short action. As accurate as the 6BR with the speed of the 243. The final result of years and a few 100 thousand rounds is the 6XC. I found it to work as advertised. The two I built were the most accurate versatile Rifles I ever had and I’m completely sold. If you knew the actual history there is no debate the 6 XC is the best. You can shoot what ever you like for whatever reason you like but I’m sure if you spent a few years and few 100 thousand rounds you would say you know you guys were right. Save yourself the trouble.
It is the only cartridge in history to shoot a perfect score in NRA high power.
Has won many championships

The 6xc is much more versatile. No comparison in a repeater. You can run the cheapest mags flawlessly and even run the DTAC and the Barnes 112 from the mag. The BC from these two is more than a full tenth over the beloved 105ish bullets. But in Benchest it's really more about recoil in the bags than anything about BC or people would have abandoned the 105 range long ago.

And comparing it to the 6br is really kind of silly. Two different things. Like comparing a 223 to a 22-250. The 6xc is a whole other range of velocity at basically the same range of accuracy.

 

[urbanrifleman]

There are people that post with very adamant opinions on performance on so many things that they have ZERO experience with themselves. The 6xc is probably first on the list.

I have never once had a customer come back and say the 6xc was eclipsed by any other cartridge. For what it does, it is pretty ideal.

I shoot the 6br, 6bra, 22bra, 22xc, 6xc, 223, 223 Ackley, 243 and 308.

Honestly, if I had to pick one and my life depended on it, in the 308 bolt face, it would have to be 6xc, because it is more versatile. Or 22xc. I do love the 6bra and 22bra but those 80 dollar mags would give the tip of the hat to the 6xc if I only got to pick one. If I were only going to shoot single shot for the rest of my life I would pick the 6bra or 22bra.

If I could get good brass.

 

[sandwarrior]

accuracy isn't about the case, it's about the precision a rifle is put together with and how precise the ammo is built. Along with how well a shooter can discipline themselves to actually accomplish accuracy records

So a really well put together 30-40 Krag is a great option. Any case? Good to know in case I need to go be a record setting competitor.

Since I have no idea who you are or how close you are capable to actually setting a record, I would say start there. Improve your attitude toward doing better is the first thing to change.
Then to the rifle and ammo. You would need to dedicate a precision platform to handle the 30-40 Krag. Lapua used to make Krag brass, so see if you can still find some of that. Turn it. Weight separate it. Then do some load workups and you might find you have an accurate rifle on your hands. But, I doubt you'll go to any length to do that

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Look up and see how many rifle matches of any kind has the 243 won compared to the others. That will help make up your mind.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Since I have no idea who you are or how close you are capable to actually setting a record, I would say start there. Improve your attitude toward doing better is the first thing to change.
Then to the rifle and ammo. You would need to dedicate a precision platform to handle the 30-40 Krag. Lapua used to make Krag brass, so see if you can still find some of that. Turn it. Weight separate it. Then do some load workups and you might find you have an accurate rifle on your hands. But, I doubt you'll go to any length to do that

My attitude is fantastic. I was arguing your point, with sarcasm, but it didn’t work. We don’t agree on the issue and that’s not a big problem. I’ll leave you be now.

 

[sandwarrior]

My attitude is fantastic. I was arguing your point, with sarcasm, but it didn’t work. We don’t agree on the issue and that’s not a big problem. I’ll leave you be now.

Your comparison reminds me of the 1976 Olympic biathlon. The last year they used full power rifles in full length lanes in that competition. Both the Russians and the Fins necked down 7.62 x54R and 7.62 x53R cases respectively to 6.5mm. The Russians took first, the Fins took second. Obviously, the effort to win that race is foremost, but the accuracy was exemplarary. Meaning those old 'obsolete' cartridges can do the job if the platform and ammo is built for precision. You'll not see either in modern competitions. But, that's not to say they can't do the job.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Look up and see how many rifle matches of any kind has the 243 won compared to the others. That will help make up your mind.

John Whidden. Pretty much dominates 1000 yard shooting with a 243.

I really wish someone would make 243 CM brass. 243 body with 6br neck and shoulder. Now that would be a cartridge I might like to see.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Your comparison reminds me of the 1976 Olympic biathlon. The last year they used full power rifles in full length lanes in that competition. Both the Russians and the Fins necked down 7.62 x54R and 7.62 x53R cases respectively to 6.5mm. The Russians took first, the Fins took second. Obviously, the effort to win that race is foremost, but the accuracy was exemplarary. Meaning those old 'obsolete' cartridges can do the job if the platform and ammo is built for precision. You'll not see either in modern competitions. But, that's not to say they can't do the job.

That’s a cool story man.

 

[Leeman]

John Whidden. Pretty much dominates 1000 yard shooting with a 243.

I really wish someone would make 243 CM brass. 243 body with 6br neck and shoulder. Now that would be a cartridge I might like to see.

You can make it yourself with 6SLR resizing dies from Whidden, just run a .243 case in, comes out with 30 degree shoulder and longer neck. Robert Whitley designed it two decades ago. I did think the CM had a 35 degree shoulder or thereabouts.

 

[rijndael]

6 Creedmoor has a 30 degree shoulder.

6GT is 35 degrees.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

You can make it yourself with 6SLR resizing dies from Whidden, just run a .243 case in, comes out with 30 degree shoulder and longer neck. Robert Whitley designed it two decades ago. I did think the CM had a 35 degree shoulder or thereabouts.

Been shooting them since I saw the artical on Accurateshooter back in the day.

If you realy dont care about barrel life it wil run a 115gr Dtac at 3250fps and clean a 1000y F-open target. Sako brass, size and load or if you want to turn necks just spec you reamer for Lapua brass and spend allot of time turning necks.

I have beem shooting 6mms since i could talk and this is the only one I need.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Been shooting them since I saw the artical on Accurateshooter back in the day.

If you realy dont care about barrel life it wil run a 115gr Dtac at 3250fps and clean a 1000y F-open target. Sako brass, size and load or if you want to turn necks just spec you reamer for Lapua brass and spend allot of time turning necks.

I have beem shooting 6mms since i could talk and this is the only one I need.

The only issue I've ever heard about making that cartridges the donut in the neck. I was told that Lapua brass would create a donut and you had to use the old Winchester brass.

I'm not even sure if there is such a thing as Sako 243 brass anymore.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I think the 243 SLR is one of those cartridges that should have caught on like crazy but didn't and I don't know why. The only issue I ever saw with the 243 is the crazy short neck runs into all kinds of problems with free bore. The 243slr is a beautiful looking cartridge if only there were a company that made brass for it. I would agree that it would be a no-brainer for thousand yard with a 115 dtac or a Barnes 112

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

The only issue I've ever heard about making that cartridges the donut in the neck. I was told that Lapua brass would create a donut and you had to use the old Winchester brass.

I'm not even sure if there is such a thing as Sako 243 brass anymore.

Yes they do make a massive donut but I shot allot of them and if you spec a tight neck reamer and then REALY turn necks you have very good brass but with very thin necks (I made 308 srp brass to and they could take serious preasure) I shot/tried all the 243 brass available in them and sako stuff is just as good as Lapua without the issues. I wont waste my time with Win or Rem brass if I want to be competitive, ill just build a XC or Creed then and shoot good brass.

Unfortunately your correct in regards to sako brass.