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223 single digit S.D.

It would be fun to get some Quality Brass from someone like Peterson or Lapua with out a Flash hole. Set up a jig so that you could drill your own size flash holes starting at what we would consider small size .056 ish and work your way up, just to see what would happen to your ES and SDs based on Flashhole size alone like the guys did with the 6mmDasher Brass Testing.
Also going back to Our Friend Alex, where does Firing pin force, depth and TIming play into this? With a Cartridge that is Notoriously hard to reduce SD's, you would think Primer ignition would be at the all time high points of things to explore, Yet not a Word of such things in four pages of writing. Is this why some guys are getting low SD's while the next guy over shooting the same load with the same Chamber Reamer is getting large numbers? Is it your ignition of the primer that is Causing this. Inconsistent Neck Tension? Powder Charge inconsistencies? Some food for thought nonetheless.
 
1911mag said:
Finally got some time to work up loads again and retest from last fall.
.223, 30” 1:7 Bartlein, .169 free bore, Borden Acton. Berger 85.5’s , .002 neck tension, .005” jump, H4895, LC weight sorted brass, Fed Match primers. Wife shooting 100 yds overcast 52 deg

Also did seating tests on 90vld over Varget. Trying to find the sweet spot. More to come on that next few weeks.

View attachment 1330726View attachment 1330727
Click to expand...
90 VLD seating test done
Did not have lab radar on this one.
AEAD0892-451F-47CC-9026-349ACFE73265.jpeg
 
And then … you have a 20 shot string with 5x fired LC brass not weight sorted. Fed 205MAR 23.4 H 4895 thrown charge with Berger 80.5’s jumping 0.130”. SD 12.1 at the target on 600.

Winds were 12-15 switching from 5-7 o’clock. 35 degrees and spitting snow. Gotta love Atterbury in the spring

B84CFAE9-1BA0-4073-B98B-855AB1B366AB.jpeg
 
Hope to be at Milan IL this next weekend for a good test. Recovery shoulder surgery not sure if I can pull it off quite yet.
 
1911mag said:
Hope to be at Milan IL this next weekend for a good test. Recovery shoulder surgery not sure if I can pull it off quite yet.
Click to expand...
Weather looks better for next weekend. I am teaching a clinic at my home club near Champaign or I would say I’ll see you there. I hope you are able to shoot pain free.
 
Been awhile since I've weighed in on the 223/90vld stuff as Ned can always be counted upon to get it right.

However, this recent thread was a little deja vu for me, as no one has collected on my 2016 challenge ala (post #11) very much related to the current one.

Post in thread 'What's the lowest SD you can get with 223?' https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...sd-you-can-get-with-223.3899066/post-36744465

Drew
 
RegionRat said:
Nice, so far so good. Is this for an F-TR barrel?
Why are you loading with nickel plated brass?
Click to expand...
It’s a prs type training barrel. The nickel brass, I picked up a whole bunch of it once fired a few years ago. I will use lake city as well, but my batch is getting long in the tooth
 
skiutah02 said:
Been awhile since I've weighed in on the 223/90vld stuff as Ned can always be counted upon to get it right.

However, this recent thread was a little deja vu for me, as no one has collected on my 2016 challenge ala (post #11) very much related to the current one.

Post in thread 'What's the lowest SD you can get with 223?' https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...sd-you-can-get-with-223.3899066/post-36744465

Drew
Click to expand...
Drew - I need all the help I can get. You know that LOL. I learn something new every time you post.

5 shots is a relatively small sample size for determining velocity statistics. Sure, many of us use 5-shot groups for load development, but there are other reasons for that. I've recorded velocity for plenty of 5-shot groups with single digit ES/SDs using a .223 Rem with heavies. However, those are not the "average". As Drew (@skiutah02) noted above, trying to keep the ES/SD values (both) to single digits with 15+ shot strings is a whole different story. I haven't ever been able to accomplish that that I am aware of, or I'd be $50 richer ;).

@SurgeonCO: that is very solid velocity data for the string of 5 shots. I would be quite pleased with a single digit SD and an ES in the mid teens. I would shoot a load with those velocity stats in a match any time, assuming the precision is also acceptable. Until I acquired a LabRadar, I didn't typically record velocity for practice strings of 15-20 shots because I simply didn't feel like doing so with the MagnetoSpeed bayonet attached to the barrel (i.e. change in POI, etc.). Using the LabRadar to measure velocity over 20+ shot practice strings was an eye-opening experience for me. If you haven't done so already, you might consider measuring ES/SD for a longer string of fire just to see how the values compare. If they remain as low as for the shorter string you showed, then you're really onto something. I never really experimented a lot using different primers in the .223 Rem with 90 VLDs. My recipe has always been H4895 and Fed 205s. Having recently done some primer testing in .308 Win loads, I rather suspect I have been always leaving something on the reloading bench with my .223 loads. In any event, what you're doing is obviously working out for you. Best of luck with it!
 
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Strange thing is, with Berger 70 or 75 VLD's, CCI400 and N133 I can consistently get very low SD numbers.

If I move up to 80gr VLD's or 80 ELD's using the exact same loading procedures with various
slower powders the game changes. I have had some very low ES/SD results with Varget but
nowhere as repeatable as the 70-75 bullets with N133.



75 VLD

9/8/21

Stats - Average 2836.65 fps
Stats - Highest 2838.55 fps
Stats - Lowest 2834.14 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 4.41 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 1.75 fps

Shot ID V0 V10
1 2839 2818
2 2837 2817
3 2836 2815
4 2834 2814
5 2838 2817


9/17/21

Stats - Average 2828.58 fps
Stats - Highest 2834.48 fps
Stats - Lowest 2821.29 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 13.19 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 4.52 fps

Shot ID V0 V10
1 2832 2810
2 2829 2808
3 2834 2813
4 2830 2809
5 2824 2803
6 2821 2801
7 2828 2807
8 2834 2813
9 2825 2804

10/29/21

Stats - Average 2814.95 fps
Stats - Highest 2823.79 fps
Stats - Lowest 2811.42 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 12.37 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 4.61 fps

Shot ID V0 V10
1 2812 2792
2 2813 2789
3 2824 2798
4 2814 2793
5 2812 2791
6 2822 2790
7 2818 2796
8 2811 2790
9 2811 2789
10 2812 2791

12/1/21

Stats - Average 2838.08 fps
Stats - Highest 2848.73 fps
Stats - Lowest 2832.28 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 16.45 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 4.87 fps

Shot ID V0 V10
1 2842 2820
2 2834 2812
3 2849 2826
4 2838 2816
5 2835 2813
6 2836 2814
7 2835 2813
8 2832 2810
9 2839 2817
10 2841 2819


70VLD

Stats - Average 2943.16 fps
Stats - Highest 2949.79 fps
Stats - Lowest 2933.09 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 16.7 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 6.11 fps

Shot ID V0 V10
1 2950 2927
2 2939 2915
3 2935 2911
4 2933 2910
5 2948 2925
6 2945 2921
7 2943 2920
8 2946 2922
9 2950 2926
 
I just checked some of my old targets. I had recorded an SD of 8.5 over 20 shots with reloader15 powder, Lapua brass, Sierra 90 gr bullets. Neck sized 1 thousandths smaller than with bullet loaded. Shoulder bumped 3 thousandths, full length sized. 6.5 twist 30 inch barrel. Also recorded an SD of 6 over 6 shots with this same set up on a different day. I also recorded an SD of 22 over 20 shots with this same set up on a different day. All groups at 600 yards. The average SD from 27 times I had recorded SD is 14.1. Of those 27 times I recorded SD the two best scores were both 200-14x the SD on those targets were 14.1 and 14.4. The best vertical over those 27 targets was a score of 199-11x shot #20 went just above the center line at 9 o’clock in the 9 ring. The group measured vertically a bit less than 1/2 minute. SD was 12.2. The verticals on the 6 shot string with the SD of 6 was also a bit under 1/2 minute. The score was 60-4x the two tens being at 6 and 9 o’clock. The score on the target with an SD of 8.5 was 197-10x and the vertical was right around 3/4 of a minute. The target with the SD of 22 shows a score of 198-9x. The one miss on shot number 5 for an 8 doesn’t show up in the pic of the target so I don’t know where it went. Of the 21 shots in the pic (two sighters) 11 are X’s (both sighters were X’s). The verticals size of what is visible is a bit less than 3/4 MOA. My guess is that SD isn’t really hurting me too much. Average SD of 14 seems fine for me. Better to work on me for improvement
 
I just checked some of my old targets. I had recorded an SD of 8.5 over 20 shots with reloader15 powder, Lapua brass, Sierra 90 gr bullets. Neck sized 1 thousandths smaller than with bullet loaded. Shoulder bumped 3 thousandths, full length sized. 6.5 twist 30 inch barrel. Also recorded an SD of 6 over 6 shots with this same set up in a different day. I also recorded an SD of 22 over 20 shots with this same set up on a different day. All groups at 600 yards. The average SD from 27 times I had recorded SD is 14.1. Of those 27 times I recorded SD the two best scores were both 200-14x the SD on those targets were 14.1 and 14.4. The best vertical over those 27 targets was a score of 199-11x shot 20 just above the center line at 9 o’clock in the 9 ring. The group measured vertically a bit less than 1/2 minute. SD was 12.2. The verticals on the 6 shot string with the SD of 6 was also a bit under 1/2 minute. The score was 60-4x the two tens being at 6 and 9 o’clock. The score on the target with an SD of 8.5 was 197-10x and the vertical was right around 3/4 of a minute. The target with the SD of 22 shows a score of 198-9x. The one miss on shot number 5 doesn’t show up in the pic of the target so I don’t know where it went.
 
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