223 bolt rifle with 1/8 twist with 55 gr bullets ?
- Thread starter rebs
- Start date
1:8 twist should be fine. Problems are too slow a twist for too heavy a bullet. (Not your case!)
I have a 1:14 in 222 which will never stabilize a 77 grain bullet. Guaranteed to key hole if it hits the paper.
Remembering that the RPM's are always a crazy high number and some bullets will disintegrate on their way to the target. There are folks on this site that can tell you which bullets, spun too fast, with thin enough jackets, will fly apart.
I have a 1:14 in 222 which will never stabilize a 77 grain bullet. Guaranteed to key hole if it hits the paper.
Remembering that the RPM's are always a crazy high number and some bullets will disintegrate on their way to the target. There are folks on this site that can tell you which bullets, spun too fast, with thin enough jackets, will fly apart.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Bullet spin rate = MVX720/Twist rate.
If the 55 grain bullet is going 3200 fps in an 8 twist barrel, it's RPM is 288,000 revs/sec; if the MV is more than 3200 fps, the RPM will go up proportionally. At least for match bullets, Hornady says the max spin rate should be 280,000; Sierra said they want the spin rate no more than 260,000.
If I've got it right, the real issues come when the lead [from friction with the barrel] heats enough to start to melt. The higher the spin rate, the sooner the bullet will come apart.
From my experience, I keep the bullets happy within the mfg's recommendations.
If the 55 grain bullet is going 3200 fps in an 8 twist barrel, it's RPM is 288,000 revs/sec; if the MV is more than 3200 fps, the RPM will go up proportionally. At least for match bullets, Hornady says the max spin rate should be 280,000; Sierra said they want the spin rate no more than 260,000.
If I've got it right, the real issues come when the lead [from friction with the barrel] heats enough to start to melt. The higher the spin rate, the sooner the bullet will come apart.
From my experience, I keep the bullets happy within the mfg's recommendations.
The problem I have with the Hornaday 55 gr V-max, not soft point, is that they sit too far down the neck when touching lands in an 8 twist Criterion barrel, leaving too little room for a stout charge. If you find that issue with your barrel, consider using a ball powder such as CFE223, or H335. My best load was found at 24.5 Varget, but at 25.5 it was highly compressed. That was using Federal Brass. If using Lake City, you'll be experiencing compressed sooner.
A far better combination is the 53 V-Max IMR 3031. Extremely accurate combination.
A far better combination is the 53 V-Max IMR 3031. Extremely accurate combination.
No problem with military ball, even in a 7 twist, not sure about thinner skinned rockets
My Tikka T3, 8" twist, shoot the 55 Nosler BT's slightly under 1/2 moa. with H4895. However I had to reduce the load about 1 to 1.5 grains compared to my 12" twist 223's to get this bullet to group in the 8" twist Tikka. Presumably this reduced load was needed to reduced the velocity to get this bullet weight to group.
The 60 Vmax shoots really well in my 8" twist 223's.
The 60 Vmax shoots really well in my 8" twist 223's.
DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
1) Yes
2) 10% below the listed maximum for the powder you choose..
Some folks have excellent results with fast twist and light bullets. I have for certain witnessed it, but it seems rare and I have not been able to do it. We also may not reckon "excellent results" the same. What has not been mentioned on this thread is that if "faster is better" then all they would make and all everyone would use is very fast twist barrels, but that is not the case.
The good old American way of "if some is good then more has to be better" is not the case when it comes to twist rates. Generally speaking, the slowest twist that will stabilize a given bullet weight will shoot the most accurate. I have not found the fast twist barrel yet that will put light weight bullets in the same hole at 100 yards. I do have a 1-in-14 and a 1-in-12 that both do it for the first several rounds, after that the rest are still touching. This is with 55 grain bullets only. That is what I call excellent, some are content with a 1 1/2" group.
The good old American way of "if some is good then more has to be better" is not the case when it comes to twist rates. Generally speaking, the slowest twist that will stabilize a given bullet weight will shoot the most accurate. I have not found the fast twist barrel yet that will put light weight bullets in the same hole at 100 yards. I do have a 1-in-14 and a 1-in-12 that both do it for the first several rounds, after that the rest are still touching. This is with 55 grain bullets only. That is what I call excellent, some are content with a 1 1/2" group.
My Tikka 8 twist shoots Berger 52s just as well as my Shilen 14 twist,it also shoots 50 grain custom bullets as well as my 14 twist Shilen . Very small groups, your rifle will dictate. I have had great luck with light bullets in fast twist barrels, I just throttle the loads down a bit. Works for me .
I had excellent results with 223 Rem handloads using the 52gn Hornady A-Max in an 8-twist Lilja many years back - MV unknown. I was using up the remains of a stock of lighter bullets from a previous 12-twist 223. 'Excellent' was consistent quarter to third of an inch 5-shot groups at 100. This seemed a useful load for a sheltered 100-300 yard range I frequent.
This performance was obtained in working up over the winter in 30s-50s temperatures. On a hot summer's day (by UK standards) on the 300 yard range, the first half dozen shots were in the target centre as expected, then things went increasingly wrong with serious elevation stringing. ('Serious' as in 4 or 5 MOA!)
Switching to the rifle's usual 80gn load, I kept the 52s back until we'd moved to 100. Again, from a cold barrel the first group was fine before it went bad again in group 2 ..... then in group 3, I was either in a world BR record group situation as there was only a single clean-edged hole on the target, or shots two and after hadn't arrived. Yes, they were exploding in grey puffs 80 or 90 yards downrange. I couldn't see it, but spectators behind me said it was quite spectacular and quickly attracted a small crowd of rubberneckers.
These Hornady bullets are known to be very thin-jacketed and therefore vulnerable to over-rotation, but it shows the stresses any lightweight bullets are subject to in this situation.
This performance was obtained in working up over the winter in 30s-50s temperatures. On a hot summer's day (by UK standards) on the 300 yard range, the first half dozen shots were in the target centre as expected, then things went increasingly wrong with serious elevation stringing. ('Serious' as in 4 or 5 MOA!)
Switching to the rifle's usual 80gn load, I kept the 52s back until we'd moved to 100. Again, from a cold barrel the first group was fine before it went bad again in group 2 ..... then in group 3, I was either in a world BR record group situation as there was only a single clean-edged hole on the target, or shots two and after hadn't arrived. Yes, they were exploding in grey puffs 80 or 90 yards downrange. I couldn't see it, but spectators behind me said it was quite spectacular and quickly attracted a small crowd of rubberneckers.
These Hornady bullets are known to be very thin-jacketed and therefore vulnerable to over-rotation, but it shows the stresses any lightweight bullets are subject to in this situation.
He He, nothing wrong with entertaining the crowd!
I worked up a load with the H 55gr sp for two 12 twist Remingtons I owned at the time. It shot 1/2' in my BDL, and 3/4" in my model 7. It's not like me as far as how I shoot, but with the world the way it is I loaded 40 or 50 of them. These were my Sh*t hit the fan loads. Something to grab and go in a rush. I've since sold those 12 twist rifles and have been using them for foulers here and there in my 8 twist Tikka's.
The foulers were hitting paper at damn near the same point of impact as the match load I'm tinkering with so I decided to see how a few more foulers would print a group of sorts including the fouling rd. The first shot the last time around was 1/2" low of point of aim, and it did it again this time. The second shot opened things up... LOL Any guess as to why the 2 shot group in upper right corner opened?.
The foulers were hitting paper at damn near the same point of impact as the match load I'm tinkering with so I decided to see how a few more foulers would print a group of sorts including the fouling rd. The first shot the last time around was 1/2" low of point of aim, and it did it again this time. The second shot opened things up... LOL Any guess as to why the 2 shot group in upper right corner opened?.
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For this load I decided to try to use up some components that were collecting dust. I wanted it to be a stable load, so I fought the urge to use my dusty bottle of CFE223, and grabbed my Varget. I used CCI 400 primers, and 1x AR fired PMC brass. Work up as always, but this load is pretty warm.... Also note; this PMC brass has atleast a 1/2gr more capacity over Lapua.
26.4gr Varget
CCI 400
PMC brass
Hornady 55gr sp
BTO 1.860 which equals right at 2.200 C.O.A.L
This is .008 off my touch measurement using the Hornady comparator. The way I use that tool I feel I'm actually jammed .002-.004 with my repeatable measurements.
26.4gr Varget
CCI 400
PMC brass
Hornady 55gr sp
BTO 1.860 which equals right at 2.200 C.O.A.L
This is .008 off my touch measurement using the Hornady comparator. The way I use that tool I feel I'm actually jammed .002-.004 with my repeatable measurements.
Sure they can but it might depend on what you consider well means . I think the good starting load would be dependent on what powder/s you plan to use . I personally use H-335 for all my 55gr bullets but that's not likely the best powder to use . I'd likely get a tad better results if I used AR-comp , 8208 , IMR 4064 etc or any of the known for accuracy stick powders . I however am not looking for sub moa with my 55gr bullets . MOA is good enough or would be considered shooting "well" in my book . I shoot them in 1-7 , 1-8 & 1-9 twist barrels and they shoot "well" enough for me YMMV
MG
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a few 8-twist tubes (heavier weight 20" and 24") in A/R's that love 55's. Have had excellent results using CFE223, Rel 7, TAC, IMR8208XBR and Varget. I'd not worry about comments on powder capacity unless velocity is more important that accuracy. Fortunately there are many fast burning powders that don't take up a lot of room that work very well with this combo - like the Reloader 7, TAC and Accurate LT32, among others. Also - "accurate" is a rather loose term on this forum. If I get 1/3" (or less) MOA from my A/R's, I'm happy. I also don't load real hot - usually 5% off max or thereabouts as I work up loads I can shoot in 105 degree weather or freezing without worrying about pressure peaking and stay in a wide accuracy node. These powders have worked well for me with 55's in doing that and were all capable of getting me the accuracy I wanted in each of the barrels I have. Some just do better in a particular barrel. If I had to pick only one - I'd start with Reloader 7. If that didn't get me under 1/2 MOA when running a ladder, I'd next go to IMR8208XBR. I'd not spend a lot of time with seating depth adjustment, neck tension and primer swaps if you are not getting great potential with a powder and using "book" seating depths. I'd switch to another powder if you have it. We all do things differently - but this has worked really well for me over the years. Good Luck!
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