222 Test Shots, a Little Help to Interpret

[TheCZKid]

I recently purchased a Sako 222 on AS, with Hart 1:14 twist. I have only tried one bullet Hornady 50 V-max, and a couple powders. First LT-32 which I have almost 5 pounds of, as it's supposed to be almost identical to H322 (which I have part of a pound). The LT-32 ladder test was disappointing, thought I'd have at least one or two small groups. 21.5 and 22.5 look okay, but the 22.0 being so huge between gives me pause. My seating depth gave these a pretty big jump.



I then loaded some with the load the last owner seemed to like, H322 22.2 grains, and seated the bullets out .080 closer to the lands, which was supposed to be about .020 off the lands. I figured this seating depth is probably were the rifle likes these 50 Vmax, and this load was expected to perform. I had two batches, one with Rem 7 1/2 primers top three bulls, and CCI-400 bottom two. All are with almost no wind, off a bench.

The first upper left was with Rem 7 1/2 primers, had first cold bore shot through clean barrel go slightly high, and the next 4 in the same hole! I was excited. Then the next bull to right opened up and scattered.

Then I shot the loads with CCI-400 primers, bottom left then center bottom, both larger groups even larger.
Last I shot the Rem 7 1/2 load again, top right, and it was the worst group of all.



Shooting conditions were pretty much identical, and the flyers and larger groups were unexpected based on how I was shooting. I don't think I was shooting poorly, but I'm trying to figure out why the same load would shoot from tight to loose as I progressed along. Ideas?

I don't know how many rounds have gone through this barrel before I purchased it. Visually it looks good, but I don't have a bore scope. I've got some options of bullets I can try, and powders, but before I went down that testing trail, I'd like some suggestions interpreting these two targets.

 

[357Mag]

I recently purchased a Sako 222 on AS, with Hart 1:14 twist. I have only tried one bullet Hornady 50 V-max, and a couple powders. First LT-32 which I have almost 5 pounds of, as it's supposed to be almost identical to H322 (which I have part of a pound). The LT-32 ladder test was disappointing, thought I'd have at least one or two small groups. 21.5 and 22.5 look okay, but the 22.0 being so huge between gives me pause. My seating depth gave these a pretty big jump.

View attachment 1454784

I then loaded some with the load the last owner seemed to like, H322 22.2 grains, and seated the bullets out .080 closer to the lands, which was supposed to be about .020 off the lands. I figured this seating depth is probably were the rifle likes these 50 Vmax, and this load was expected to perform. I had two batches, one with Rem 7 1/2 primers top three bulls, and CCI-400 bottom two. All are with almost no wind, off a bench.

The first upper left was with Rem 7 1/2 primers, had first cold bore shot through clean barrel go slightly high, and the next 4 in the same hole! I was excited. Then the next bull to right opened up and scattered.

Then I shot the loads with CCI-400 primers, bottom left then center bottom, both larger groups even larger.
Last I shot the Rem 7 1/2 load again, top right, and it was the worst group of all.

View attachment 1454785

Shooting conditions were pretty much identical, and the flyers and larger groups were unexpected based on how I was shooting. I don't think I was shooting poorly, but I'm trying to figure out why the same load would shoot from tight to loose as I progressed along. Ideas?

I don't know how many rounds have gone through this barrel before I purchased it. Visually it looks good, but I don't have a bore scope. I've got some options of bullets I can try, and powders, but before I went down that testing trail, I'd like some suggestions interpreting these two targets.

CZkid -

Howdy !

On the second panel of targets immediately above, the upper Lt corner group looks like you have arrived @ a great load ....IMHO


With regards,
357Mag

 

[TheCZKid]

CZkid -

Howdy !

On the second panel of targets immediately above, the upper Lt corner group looks like you have arrived @ a great load ....IMHO


With regards,
357Mag

That load is the same load for ALL the targets on that page, with the exception of top 3 have Rem 7 1/2 primers and bottom two are CCI-400, same load. So, I'm trying to figure out how is started as a stellar group and progressively opened up. Never had that happen with the same load, so not sure.

 

[LHSmith]

Suggest using some sort of flags. How long between shots, groups. Mirage shield for barrel? IIRC that 22.2 gr, of H-322 was a great load for my 700 Varmint Special using Hornady 50 gr. SX. Mirage on the range?

 

[TheCZKid]

Suggest using some sort of flags. How long between shots, groups. Mirage shield for barrel? IIRC that 22.2 gr, of H-322 was a great load for my 700 Varmint Special. Mirage on the range?

I used wind flags, and it was 100 yards, virtually no wind. Time between shots about 5 minutes. About 70 degrees, early evening, no mirage.

 

[JohnHenry]

Try some 52 gr match bullets with your .32" group 22.2 gr H322 load. Should leave you smiling.
Also Hornady recommends a 1 in 12" or faster twist for their 50 gr V-Max bullet. Your 1 in 14" twist may be marginal with the longer 50 V-Max. Probably should measure the twist rate to verify it is 1 in 14"

Hornady V-Max Bullets 22 Cal (224 Diameter) 50 Grain Boat Tail Moly

Hornady's V-Max Bullets feature a polymer tip which enhances accuracy and promotes devastating expansion. The tip raises the ballistic coefficient...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[LHSmith]

Time between shots about 5 minutes.

So, 5 minutes between shots means you are bound to see changing conditions with that long of an interval. Having campaigned a .222 in 100 yard competition it is quite a bit more wind sensitive than my 6 PPC. I would tape a piece of target paper to the barrel for a mirage shield and try that load again after checking the action screws. FWIW my best groups have always been when there is some consistent condition.

 

[TheCZKid]

I hadn't measured the twist rate, but just did. Looks like it's really close to or at 14" twist, 13.75" was only measurement off from 2 at 14". It might not like the 50 V-max either, but it was what the last owner seemed to use. I also have a bunch of them on-hand.

What weight bullet is ideal, and what range do I have, with a 14 twist 222 barrel? I thought 50 to 52 grain was the bees knees.

LHSmith, appreciate the feedback. Since I have so little H323, but a lot of LT-32 I think I'll try the 21.5 load again. The wind was almost not there, and I had one flag at the target, so I was rushing it a bit. I do have three flags to use, close, mid and far. I'll utilize them all next time.

I'll also use a strip of target across the barrel top, never tried that.

I've got some Hornady SP SX 50 grain FB SP bullets I'd like to try. I've heard they perform well, and they are flat base, compared to the V-max which are boat-tail, I'm curious if that would make a difference.

 

[William Vogel]

I’d suggest to tighten your increments of powder from .5 grains to .2 grains and concentrate on the 21.5 and the 22.5 loads. Go 21.4 21.6 and 22.4 22.6.

 

[TheCZKid]

I'm new to the 222 Rem, is there an ideal speed fps to stay within?
I was just reading an article about the 222 and it showed load speeds of about 3030 to 3180 fps.
The above LT-32 21.5 load clocked 3284, and the 22.5 was at 3442. Maybe these are too fast? The H322 22.2 measured 2260 fps.

 

[nakneker]

Those groups would have me checking my bases, rings and action screws. Check the crown, all the basic stuff we look for when we are left scratching our head. If you find everything is as it should be I’d try the LT -32 again and if the same results happen I’d try a different powder. I’ve had quite a few 222s and it’s typically a pretty easy round to find a load that shoots good, some of the rifles I’ve had in the past showed a strong preference for certain powders but that’s not usually the case in my experience with 222s but it does happen.

The rifle you bought was a beauty and looked well cared for. It’s take a lot of rounds in 222 for a barrel to give out but if you have a bore scope it can’t hurt to look at the throat. It certainly didn’t look like it had a high round count but you never know. I bought a 22 PPC sako last year on gunbroker, gorgeous rifle, when I ran a cleaning rod down the barrel it was obvious something wasn’t good. Barrel was full of rust, whoever had it took care of the outside and neglected the inside.

I have a few different 22 bullets you can try and I’m happy to send you a few to see if that’s it. I can send you a couple 52 grain varieties and some more 50grain varieties, I also have some 40 grains that might be worth trying.

Some of my favorite 222 powders are hard to get, next to impossible right now, I use H4198 in about half of my rifles with good success but there’s some good powders that aren’t hard to find that might be worth trying. Lots of guys use IMR 4198 with good success, H322 is hard to get but H335 has yielded good results for me in the past. VV133 is easy to get, it’s been great. AR comp is another one I’ve used and a guy could find right now. Im sure you want to use that LT-32 if you can but if you check the rifle and find nothing, experience the same randomness as your last session I’d try a couple of different powders and bullet combos. PM me if you want some other 22 cal bullets, I have 5-6 you are welcome to try.

Keep us updated And good luck.

 

[1911nut]

Try N133 and a 52 Berger.

 

[JSH]

I would also check torque on everything.
The old SXSP always shot better than any of the Vmax did, they won’t tolerate a 1-9 twist but your 1-13.75 should work well.
The ONLY reason I shoot as many Vmax bullets as I do is because of the twist of my rifles.

 

[TheCZKid]

Great input. I'll check all the normal things, like you said, make sure nothing is loose, etc. I did take the action out of the stock, wanted to see how things looked between the wood and the action.

The stock action looked like it was very lightly bedded in the bottom front lug area, and around the rear tang, but looking again I see that the wood is just dark where it touches the action, not bedded.



When I put it back together I had 30 inch lbs torque on front screw and 20 inch lbs on rear. The barrel is free-floating.

The scope is mounted with non-Sako rings, as below the rings is an adapter plate that converted the Sako mount to a Weaver style mount, then has Warne rings. Seems solid, but I didn't really figure out exactly what those adapters were about, and if they are torqued, etc.





For compatible powders in enough volume to make sense to test I have:
LT-32, N133, N120, RL-7, H335, IMR-1808, W748, TAC, IMR-4895

Bullets I have enough of to test:
50 Vmax, Hornady 50 SP SX, Speer 50 TNT, Nosler 52 gr CC BTHP
Nosler Ballistic Tip in 55 and 40 gr Nosler Varmageddon 55
Sierra 55 GameKing and 55 BlitzKing, Hornady 2266 55 Soft-point.

I was leaning to test mostly 50 up to 52, maybe a 53 grain bullet.

 

[JSH]

Those TNT should fly well.

 

[LHSmith]

Looks like the scope may be mounted quite high due to that adapter and perhaps you are getting parallax issues because you cannot repeat your cheekweld- coupled with the added mental pressure to shoot another small group- we all tend to rush things when that happens. My first inclination is to blame conditions -especially mirage. With a typical low power scope you can't readily see it- yet it may be there. It is not only induced by temperature change but also moisture related. Try another outing when there is a steady condition which cycles around repeatedly- (some wind) and set flags at 25, 50 and 75. An overcast day over dry ground/grass would be best.

 

[Gary in MD]

What scope are you using?
I’d try another one if that one is not “proven”

 

[LHSmith]

You don't show your rest set-up, but next outing pay close attention to the distances from fore end tip to front bag and from butt plate to rear of rear bag. Experiment a bit with these distances. The sling stud often forces your set-up at a non-optimum balance point. Also, my HV .222 likes to be clean- I clean it after every relay (~ 10 shots) vs. 30 rnds for a 6 PPC vs. 60 rnds for the 30 BR. Current load is N-133 with 52 gr. Barts and Fed 205.

 

[Clancy]

Those groups scream scope problem. I’m guessing it’s a Leupold, which comes as no surprise. But, whatever it is, sure looks like a scope problem with those massive point of impact shifts.

 

[sw282]

CZ, You will love your 222. For past year l have been regularly shooting my Cooper Varmint in 222 almost exclusively. Concentrating on ACCURACY loads in Sierra and Nosler manual has produced rewarding small groups. Noteworthy in Nosler's for 50gr-53gr bullets using H322, 7 1/2 Rem primers, and R-P brass. Walt Berger's favourite 222 load with H335 and his 52gr Flat base targets did not perform well in my Cooper