222 Test Shots, a Little Help to Interpret

[Coyotefurharvester]

More than once I have had issues with Weaver type ring orientation that requires a lot of windage used to zero scope at one hundred yards, some scopes will have a "jumpy" reticle at the end of an adjustment range. Often the cure is as simple as reversing the ring position, cross bolt head from left side to right side of action. Or a Burris signature ring and using the insert system to zero scope at 100 yards. The 40gr Noslers and vmax are easy tune in 222's. Also probably any decent 50- 52 gr flatbase bullet.

 

[ohlongarmisle]

I recently purchased a Sako 222 on AS, with Hart 1:14 twist. I have only tried one bullet Hornady 50 V-max, and a couple powders. First LT-32 which I have almost 5 pounds of, as it's supposed to be almost identical to H322 (which I have part of a pound). The LT-32 ladder test was disappointing, thought I'd have at least one or two small groups. 21.5 and 22.5 look okay, but the 22.0 being so huge between gives me pause. My seating depth gave these a pretty big jump.

View attachment 1454784

I then loaded some with the load the last owner seemed to like, H322 22.2 grains, and seated the bullets out .080 closer to the lands, which was supposed to be about .020 off the lands. I figured this seating depth is probably were the rifle likes these 50 Vmax, and this load was expected to perform. I had two batches, one with Rem 7 1/2 primers top three bulls, and CCI-400 bottom two. All are with almost no wind, off a bench.

The first upper left was with Rem 7 1/2 primers, had first cold bore shot through clean barrel go slightly high, and the next 4 in the same hole! I was excited. Then the next bull to right opened up and scattered.

Then I shot the loads with CCI-400 primers, bottom left then center bottom, both larger groups even larger.
Last I shot the Rem 7 1/2 load again, top right, and it was the worst group of all.

View attachment 1454785

Shooting conditions were pretty much identical, and the flyers and larger groups were unexpected based on how I was shooting. I don't think I was shooting poorly, but I'm trying to figure out why the same load would shoot from tight to loose as I progressed along. Ideas?

I don't know how many rounds have gone through this barrel before I purchased it. Visually it looks good, but I don't have a bore scope. I've got some options of bullets I can try, and powders, but before I went down that testing trail, I'd like some suggestions interpreting these two targets.

Not an expert by any means, but your groups when not hitting where you want or expect, show some frustration in efforts trying to get the gun to shoot. Sometimes you have to walk away and start over the next. I'm sure you checked all specs, on scope and mounts, is the scope tracking properly, barrel free floated,rest steady,and last but not least is your vision normal?If your eyes don't focus well together you'll experience difficulty, trigger is it good, mediocre or outstanding, what does it break at.Good luck the men on this forum will figure it out for you.

 

[TheCZKid]

The scope I have is a Leupold 6.5-20x50mm with Varmint reticle. It's a recent purchase off Ebay, so I don't know for sure it doesn't have an issue. The rings seem to be a good height for clearance, thought of getting some Leupold Sako mount rings to replace the 2-part set-up on there now.



I'm trying to get use to a new shooting stand, and front and rear rest set-up. All pretty new to me. I changed from a plastic folding table to a BR-Pivot table with integrated seat. I used to use a variety of sand-bag front and rear rests. Now have a Wichita 1000 front rest with a 13 Protektor rear rabbit ear rest. I'm having a struggle getting the same cheek weld, butt / shoulder pressure, etc. with this new set-up. However, I have used it to shoot my 20 Vartarg tests and have had good results. I don't know about the grouping issue being all shooting error, but a combo of load and me getting used to all my new rest gear is very possible!

 

[K22]

If I got two more groups close to that H322 load that grouped .32", I'd stop load development and go hogging.

 

[nakneker]

The scope I have is a Leupold 6.5-20x50mm with Varmint reticle. It's a recent purchase off Ebay, so I don't know for sure it doesn't have an issue. The rings seem to be a good height for clearance, thought of getting some Leupold Sako mount rings to replace the 2-part set-up on there now.

View attachment 1454904

I'm trying to get use to a new shooting stand, and front and rear rest set-up. All pretty new to me. I changed from a plastic folding table to a BR-Pivot table with integrated seat. I used to use a variety of sand-bag front and rear rests. Now have a Wichita 1000 front rest with a 13 Protektor rear rabbit ear rest. I'm having a struggle getting the same cheek weld, butt / shoulder pressure, etc. with this new set-up. However, I have used it to shoot my 20 Vartarg tests and have had good results. I don't know about the grouping issue being all shooting error, but a combo of load and me getting used to all my new rest gear is very possible!

View attachment 1454905

If your grouping well with another rifle on the same set up my guess would be your set is fine and there’s another issue amiss.

I’ve had good luck with Leupold rings on my Sakos, just commenting since you mentioned them. They hold zero well and make a lot more sense to me than many of the other offerings for Sako, Sako’s Optilok rings included. Simple and effective.

 

[TheCZKid]

Not an expert by any means, but your groups when not hitting where you want or expect, show some frustration in efforts trying to get the gun to shoot. Sometimes you have to walk away and start over the next. I'm sure you checked all specs, on scope and mounts, is the scope tracking properly, barrel free floated,rest steady,and last but not least is your vision normal?If your eyes don't focus well together you'll experience difficulty, trigger is it good, mediocre or outstanding, what does it break at.Good luck the men on this forum will figure it out for you.

This will be a learning experience with this rifle, as my 20VT had no issues getting good groups with this set-up, as long as I did my part. The trigger is okay, not great, stock trigger breaks at 1 1/8 pounds.

Have not tested the scope for tracking, just mounted it and started shooting.

 

[TheCZKid]

I'm thinking I'll see if I can get the right height Leupold / Sako mount rings and replace the two-part Weaver adapter and Warne rings. I have those Leupold rings on my 20VT and they are really nice. The 20VT has a 40mm objective, this one 50mm, so I'll have to go to the next higher rings at least.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Have to watch the front bag/sling swivel placement, swivel riding up or intermittent contact will mess up poi during recoil movement.

 

[LHSmith]

Scope does not look overly high, but the extra interface of that adapter would be nice to get rid of. In your rest set-up make sure you keep the rear bag clear of the pistol grip- i like the bag where the stock butt is ~2 " from the back of the bag. Also I would shift the rear bag away from the benchtop edge to minimize contact with your body. Good choice on the Wichita - hard to beat. FWIW I remove the sling studs for benchwork so I am not forced to compromise bag placement.

 

[ohlongarmisle]

This will be a learning experience with this rifle, as my 20VT had no issues getting good groups with this set-up, as long as I did my part. The trigger is okay, not great, stock trigger breaks at 1 1/8 pounds.

Have not tested the scope for tracking, just mounted it and started shooting.

Triggers are important, I couldn't believe my CZ 527 american could be set so low, 1 pound, it's a set trigger to boot love it, the 204 was done by Mccarbo in Florida set at 1 pound also as Thompson triggers are too heavy at 3.5 lbs.

 

[TheCZKid]

Both my 20VT and 222 are Sako L46 and there appears to be NO aftermarket triggers for these early models. They are made 1954 and 1957 respectively. I'm glad they are both as good as they are, considering they are both factory.

I just found some correct height Leupold Sako rings on Ebay, and purchased them, so one problem solved!

 

[LHSmith]

If I got two more groups close to that H322 load that grouped .32", I'd stop load development and go hogging.

Yes, there is a reason the previous owner used that recipe. Might consider allowing bullet to get a tad closer to throat due to wear if anything.

 

[lawman29]

A couple thoughts.
I use 30 on the rear and 35 on the front in my wood stocks.

The first order of business is to get some confidence that there is not a mechanical problem based on the H322 targets.... So don't bounce around with multiple bullets and powders etc.
Do not shoot another round with H322, you only have 1/2 lb and it is unobtanium... Unless you live next door to Jim Pang who probably has a pallet of it right next to his pallet of H4198...or you have a buddy to give you some. Why test with something you can't get???
Don't get hung up just looking at group size, the targets will have more info to provide. My analysis of the H322 groups is that with the 7 1/2 the center of each group rises, while with the CCI the two groups are on the same plane (even though one is larger, it's holding vertical).
Go back to LT-32 with the bullet seated out further as you did with the H322. As previously stated by others your increments of .5 were to large. I would suggest starting at 20.0 and going up in .0.2 increments to 21.6.
As part of your mechanical check pick one of the loads to shoot 3 times.
If you end up wanting to try another powder I would recommend IMR 4198 - it works in a 222 and you can find it.
Primers: They are an important part of the tune, even more influence in smaller capacity cartridges. There just are powder - primer - bullet combinations in a particular cartridge and barrel that will reveal themselves. I will always test at some point CCI, Rem 7 1/2 and Federal. As an example I have a Sako A1 and a Ruger No.1 in 221 fireball, with IMR 4198, 40 SBK and 52 SMK they both liked F205M, the CCI was a closed second, but didn't perform with 7 1/2 (with H4198 also liked F205M, but I don't have enough of it...). In a Sako A1 in 222 Remington (factory pencil barrel) with IMR 4198, Nosler 50 BT it liked the Remington 71/2 (with H4198 liked the F205M, but just can't get it and saving my supply for my 218 Mashburn Bee). What I did initially with the 222 was loaded up ~ 16 rounds, Nosler 50 BT, with 20 grains of IMR 4198 (that load is out there as a great place to start). 10 had F205M primers and 3 each of CCI 400 and Remington 7 1/2. I used those first 7 of the F205M to sight in the scope and then had 3 shot groups of each primer, it was obvious that it liked the 7 1/2 best so I did my load testing with that primer. (Note: I picked the Nosler 50 BT because I had several hundred and it was going to my grandson for his 10th birthday).

Ken Water's in Pet Loads for the 222 made the following statement dtd 1977: "Perhaps our biggest surprise in the series of tests came from the use of the new CCI and Federal Bench Rest primers...The surprise however, was seen in the effect these new primers had on velocities. In several instances where a direct comparison was made with all other load components exactly the same, these primers boosted velocities from 69 to 85 fps above those registered with Remington 71/2 caps. In effect, they proved to be the equivalent of an additional half grain of 4198."

 

[sw282]

Smokin Joe from this forum suggested l get rid of the sling swivel studs on my 222Rem Cooper 21 Varmint. Their removal shrank my groups.

 

[TheCZKid]

Mine has a front swivel post, and I'll remove that, very good idea!
Just gotta put it somewhere I won't forget later...

 

[Jim D]

Maybe try a bore scope,
The Teslong are inexpensive.

 

[TheCZKid]

I have been looking at the Teslong, there's one on Ebay which has the WiFi and is "supposed" to be usable in a 20 caliber, that's on my radar.

Teslong Rifle Borescope 0.2inch Gun Barrel Borescope Inspection Camera NEW | eBay

(Only Applies to Teslong NTG Series Rifle Barrel Borescope. exe)" - Developed by Teslong. exe)"- Developed by Teslong. With the WiFi box, the borescope works with iPhone, iPad, Android Smartphone. Rifle Borescope Probe.

www.ebay.com

I've been spending too much money lately though, it's easy to do when I get a new rifle... gotta have some bullets, a scope, rings, etc. Food and gas are costing so much more, it's hard to deal with the lack of funds!

 

[wildcatter]

Good bullets are everything for accuracy repetition, when everthing is right.

I have shot about every caliber under the sun. I have never in my life (69years) that shot better with my bullets loaded off lands, UNTIL! I built a 222 Rem. I had this conversation with Randy Robinett over the 222, and he had the same opinion, but the 222, just off was different! I had this same conversation with Bart Sauder over my 6BR, he also confirmed he has never cornered his best accuracy backing of the lands with any of his target Rifles.

I hear it a lot, but it has never worked for me! Like I said, UNTIL I built a 222, and until I got .003" in the lands, to .006" off the lands, did I find my best accuracy. In my tight neck Panda, .003" off touch is best. I could get sporadic good ones, but this is where consistent groups found me, only in the 222 Rem.

 

[S Miller]

Are you happy with your brass?
New lapau brass and a custom 52 should make you smile.

 

[6xcshooter]

I’ve seen a lot of old sako 222 shoot the same way. I’ve concluded that the old sako aren’t that accurate. The barrels just not up to the standards of barrels of today. Oh now I’ll here from somebody that says they have one that will shoot 1/4 inch groups all day long. But I’ve had and seen older sakos shoot the same as yours. Change barrels and bed that stock properly and I bet you’ll have a good shooter then.