222 Test Shots, a Little Help to Interpret

[TheCZKid]

I’ve seen a lot of old sako 222 shoot the same way. I’ve concluded that the old sako aren’t that accurate. The barrels just not up to the standards of barrels of today. Oh now I’ll here from somebody that says they have one that will shoot 1/4 inch groups all day long. But I’ve had and seen older sakos shoot the same as yours. Change barrels and bed that stock properly and I bet you’ll have a good shooter then.

The rifle I purchased has a Hart heavy stainless barrel, so it's not the original Sako barrel. The rifle is new to me, and I did not receive info as to round count on this barrel, but it appears to bein in great shape. I don't have a bore scope, so can't comment further as to how the throat looks. Crown looks great.

 

[6xcshooter]

The rifle I purchased has a Hart heavy stainless barrel, so it's not the original Sako barrel. The rifle is new to me, and I did not receive info as to round count on this barrel, but it appears to bein in great shape. I don't have a bore scope, so can't comment further as to how the throat looks. Crown looks great.

View attachment 1455517

Well that shoots my theory about the barrel. Stock bedding might help. Also I’d try h4198 with Sierra and berger in 52 grain bullets. If that don’t help and it was mine I would trade it off.

 

[littlebuddybr]

I have seen quite a few sako's w 14 tw hart barrels shoot extremly good.

Like it's been said a good 52-53gr bullet
Sierra, berger, barts. It won't take long to see if it shoots.

H-4198 is magic. But i haven't seen any in a few years.

Watch the flags very closely. The 222 maves a lot with little to no wind.

 

[AlNyhus]

How are you verifying your seating depth? -Al

 

[big5ifty]

Reshoot the test in the OP, make your powder increments 0.2 grains .

You're jumping 0.5 which is 2.5% , and maybe skipping over the nodes.

 

[RegionRat]

If you run down all the options above and still don‘t see an improvement, I would try a different VMax, maybe a 40 VMax or a Sierra BK?

All of those mechanical troubleshooting steps are good suggestions and one may turn up to be a cause. We all know there are some odds that everything is sound and the barrel won’t do any better with this bullet.

Sometimes a barrel just doesn’t like a bullet that we want it to, but then comes to life with a different one. Don’t be afraid to test a different bullet. It needs to be one you are willing to use, but let’s face it, if you run down all the troubleshooting list and also run a different recipe and the rig still won’t make you happy… life is too short to stay married to a barrel that won’t make you smile.

It is a gorgeous rig and I’m looking forward to the range report when it is all over.

 

[TheCZKid]

For seating depth I started by using the Hornady overall length gauge, but it was giving me readings that showed it hit the lands a lot earlier than in reality. I then used the former owners measurements of for the 50 Vmax, which was reportedly .020 off the lands, and that was .080 further than my initial seating depth. That was the seating depth I used to shoot the tests in the second target photo. I'm not sure if that dimension is actually .020" off the lands, but the bullet doesn't touch the lands from what I can tell. It's seated out to OAL of about 2.21" which compared to Hornady's suggested OAL of 2.13". The chamber probably has a long freebore, though I don't have the specs on what reamer was used. Hart might have a "standard" 222 reamer, or most likely the gunsmith did the chamber.

If there's suggestions to better find the lands, let me know. I find the Hornady overall gauge a bit hard to verify the results.

 

[1911nut]

Unprimed case sized to hold the bullet seated long quite tightly, polish bullet with 0000 steel wool and light coat of imperial sizing wax on the bullet. Chamber cartridge, remove and look for marks left by the lands, seat bullet “a bit” maybe 0.005” shorter and repeat. When there are no marks call that touch.

 

[RegionRat]

Alex Wheeler was kind enough to make a video of the stripped bolt method that we now call The Wheeler Method. It takes most of the repeatability, friction, and feel, out of the measurement by using the action.
This method is very reliable, but does require you to be able to manage your bolt ejector, which isn’t for everyone.
You can see a short video down the page on this link.

https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos

 

[TheCZKid]

Unprimed case sized to hold the bullet seated long quite tightly, polish bullet with 0000 steel wool and light coat of imperial sizing wax on the bullet. Chamber cartridge, remove and look for marks left by the lands, seat bullet “a bit” maybe 0.005” shorter and repeat. When there are no marks call that touch.

Okay, 1911nut, I did an extensive process of seating a bullet in an unprimed case, with a polished 0000 exterior, and moving is slightly back until I finally came to the measurement where it had no marks, until it had rifling marks.
According to my Hornady bullet comparator, which is not COAL, but Base To Ogive Length (BTOL) with my gauge, what the last owner said 1.814" BTOL was supposed to be .020" off the lands with 50 Vmax. From what I can tell, the actual lands are hit when I'm at 1.827".

With the Hornady 50 SPSX I barely see marks from the lands at 1.830"

So, now I'm going to start testing using the 50 SPSX bullet, and would like suggestions on how far off the lands I should be in my initial re-testing of the LT-32 load ladder?

Regional Rat: As I'm new to this rifle, and Sako's in general, I'm not brave enough to take my bolt apart and remove the extractor, etc. Maybe soon!
I watched that video, I can see why THAT is the way to find the lands! Thanks for the suggestion,

 

[pintopete]

Sierra 22cal 53gr HP #1400

Product Information Caliber: 22cal Bullet Diameter: 0.224” Bullet Weight: 53 Grains OAL: 0.701" Bullet Style: Hollow Point Flat Base MatchKing G1 BC: 0.224 Part Number: 1400 or 1400C Quantity: 100 or 500

www.bluecollarreloading.com

 

[pintopete]

Try your best to change only one thing at a time.

The Hornady OAL guage can work, but I prefer to use brass that has been fired in the exact rifle I’m loading for. Process is to fire a loaded cartridge, then identify that one piece of brass as for your oal guage. Best if you can neck size only, fire it one or two more times. Then prep it for your guage. You’ll need a 5/16” EF tap, and to check for neck slip on your bullet of choice.

In any case, establish some baseline known constants. Your new bench is beautiful, but for accuracy testing, I would swing the seat out of the way, and use a chair or stool.

I would assume a couple things.
The Hart barrel is most likely excellent.
Unless the trigger is jerky, it is plenty low. For a field rifle, I don’t go below 3lbs, but that’s me. Having said that, my field results are quite good.

Once you get your new ring setup, be meticulous in mounting it. I would then assume that with your Leupold scope and mounting, is another constant. Reserve the thought that the used Leupold scope may have an issue, but try to keep that out of your head.

Analyze, and focus on your shooting technique. We all have some days that are better than others. Trigger finger, and all the usual shooter inputs can make a big difference.

As others have said, stick with a powder that you can buy more of right now. N133 works very well, IMR4198 works, and I’m sure there are others.

You’ve learned more about your seating depth in your rifle, set them .010” - .015” off, measure your powder meticulously, and go shoot.

Get some of the Sierra 53gr MK as above. The SPSX bullets are excellent on game, chucks, etc, but may not be accuracy kings. Purchase a box of 500 of the #1400’s if you can.

Make written notes and observations while at the bench/range.

Best regards, Peter.

 

[AlNyhus]

Seating depth is the single biggest thing that shooters don't get right.

In a non competition bolt gun, I start with the bullet seated .010 longer than when the rifling just disappears. In other words, .010 'into' the rifling (for lack of a better term).

Keep this seating depth the same and starting low, just go up with your powder charge...leave everything else the same. When you change powders, leave the seating depth the same and just go up with your powder charge. It's a good idea to clean the barrel before changing powders.

Once you get the best results with a certain powder, then move the bullet back in .005 increments and see how it responds.

Remember that the seating depth to the T.P. (Touch Point) of the rifling is different for different bullets. You need to establish that figure for each different bullet you will work with. Hopefully you have a seater that allows you to easily record and change seating depths.

Good shooton' -Al

 

[LHSmith]

It's a good idea to clean the barrel before changing powders.

Great point. I've been preaching this for years and almost nobody ever mentions it anymore. Thanks.

 

[AlNyhus]

Great point. I've been preaching this for years and almost nobody ever mentions it anymore. Thanks.

You're spot on. Not cleaning between powders can be a real fake out.

Not all powders/barrels show it. But I've seen it enough times that cleaning when changing powders is standard proceedure for me.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[1911nut]

Okay, 1911nut, I did an extensive process of seating a bullet in an unprimed case, with a polished 0000 exterior, and moving is slightly back until I finally came to the measurement where it had no marks, until it had rifling marks.
According to my Hornady bullet comparator, which is not COAL, but Base To Ogive Length (BTOL) with my gauge, what the last owner said 1.814" BTOL was supposed to be .020" off the lands with 50 Vmax. From what I can tell, the actual lands are hit when I'm at 1.827".

With the Hornady 50 SPSX I barely see marks from the lands at 1.830"

So, now I'm going to start testing using the 50 SPSX bullet, and would like suggestions on how far off the lands I should be in my initial re-testing of the LT-32 load ladder?

Regional Rat: As I'm new to this rifle, and Sako's in general, I'm not brave enough to take my bolt apart and remove the extractor, etc. Maybe soon!
I watched that video, I can see why THAT is the way to find the lands! Thanks for the suggestion,

So now you have “touch” length, or length to the lands for that bullet.
With my 222’s I start at 0.010” off touch and start about midrange of the published charge weights for the powder and bullet you’re shooting. When I find the best charge weight below really flat primers then I seat the bullet in increments of 0.002-.003” longer watching for pressure signs. If you don’t get a good group try another powder. If different powders don’t get you what you want try a different bullet. I’ve had some primer brands group smaller in a few rifles also.

And what Al Nyhus said.

And get some Berger 52g Target bullets.

 

[dgeesaman]

For seating depth I started by using the Hornady overall length gauge, but it was giving me …
If there's suggestions to better find the lands, let me know. I find the Hornady overall gauge a bit hard to verify the results.

Have you tried pushing it hard into the lands? Lock the thumb screw and the bullet will pop free and stick into lands. If you don’t already have a 3/16” brass rod to to pop it free, it’s a great time to buy one. I usually do two to three trials and get the number to repeat within .001” or so.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I don't mess around with loading to touch on any hunting or colony varmint rifles. 0.010 - 0.015 off and seat deeper until the best seating position is found. I make sure chamber and barrel is CLEAN before taking measurements. And clean when changing powders and/or bullet brands(could be jacket material differences).

 

[Knotwild]

I haven't read each and every post in this thread. I don't have a good .222, but I do have a Remington Mohawk that does ok. I remember reading an article by Lanyne Simpson in which he mentioned getting his best results with Federal GM205M and CCI BR4 primers. I am attaching one article he did (but it's not the one I am thinking about). Load info is all the way at the end.

222 Remington

 

[AlNyhus]

Here's an example of what I'm referring to when suggesting a seating depth .010 past the T.P. when you start tuning. After my post this morning about it, I headed to the range to shake out my new '22 ACM' (Anti CreedMoor). Other than f-forming Lapua 22-250 cases to fit the chamber, it had never been to the range before.

With the seater stem adjusted so it put the bullet .010 longer than the 'T.P., I just tuned it with the powder measure. When it shot that big vertical at 38.5 (rt target), I knew it was real close. Added .5 gr. more to 39.0 and it shot three into a little dot (left target) with a bit of a weather report to indicate the 3 o'clock winds from 12-14. It hung in there for another half grain at 39.5 and I called it good at that point.

Without a firm jam/seat of the bullet, it would have been like pushing a rope....juggling powder weight and seating depth. Including the three shots to get on paper and establish a zero at 100, this 39.0 gr load were shots # 16, 17 and 18. After cleaning the barrel, I tried another powder but didn't find anything to write home about.

Will go back out and reshoot the 39.0 and 39.5 with 5 shot groups. I expect no surprises.

Good shootin' -Al

P.S. I agree with not jamming the bullet hard on a live varmint or hunting rig. .010 'in' isn't much of a 'jam' (another misnomer).