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22 LR Bullet Sorting

Hi Bob, good ammo is the best way to get more accuracy.

Here are two examples of very similar ammunition from SK and Lapua.

With SK, the difference from lot to lot is greater. (three different lots)
SK RM.gif

At Lapua, the difference from lot to lot is less. (three different lots)
Lapua CX.gif

Look for the crimp, the last ring, and the grease grooves.

However, these are not factors for sorting rimfire ammunition.
 
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Hi Bob, good ammo is the best way to get more accuracy.

Here are two examples of very similar ammunition from SK and Lapua.

With SK, the difference from lot to lot is greater. (three different lots)
View attachment 1217535

At Lapua, the difference from lot to lot is less. (three different lots)
View attachment 1217536

Look for the crimp, the last ring, and the grease grooves.

However, these are not factors for sorting rimfire ammunition.
Great visuals. I have to ask though, on the SK photos, are all three same offering?
As in, are all three SK standard, Rifle Match, etc, whichever the case may be. The reason I ask is one photo looks like a completely different manufacturer.
 
Hi Danoh, thanks for the praise.

The photo above shows three different lots of SK Rifle Match.
The photo below shows three different lots of Lapua Center-X
Both brands are manufactured in Germany in the same company.

Personally, I think SK ammunition is good. But the Lapua production is a bit better or more consistent.

Rimifire ammunition can be measured and compared from the outside. But sometimes the differences are hidden and can only be determined after the shot.

For example:
A non-concentric crimp. This has an effect when the bullet starts in the chamber.

20201124122651.gif

Crimp Concentricity.jpg

Example: bad concentric crimp.
IMGP2577.gif

Example: good concentric crimp.
IMGP2578.gif

And now, enough top secret information for today. :cool:
 
Y'all are a little (lot) out of my league,and this might not translate well but here goes.

I shoot cast out of some pretty nice factory rifles. These aren't your Gdad's cast loads though. They are high velocity,in the realm of starting book jacketed loads. For instance,have been shooting a mint '80 R700V 6mmR this past week in the 2800fps range,into .2's and 3's 100 yard groups off admittedly,pretty cheesy X bags,even though we have a very nice full on BR setup. Too lazy to drag it out.

Stay with me.

Won't go into the long,and honestly dry,complete breakdown of loading specs/processes because they don't apply to rimfire although,some might if you're breaking down ammo.

I shoot bore ride bullets which,if you were to listen to the experts,should not be as accurate as non. These bullets interestingly are "knurled" and roll sized vs conventional,push through. There's a cpl reasons for this again,getting off my point. One of the very last ops on this ammo,right before cleaning the loaded round and putting it into it's ammo box is;

I call it an LG for little goober. It's a small length of O1 drill rod. 3/4" diameter,about an inch long. It gets chucked up in a lathe and drilled/reamed to be used as a hand held nose forming die. The depth of engagement.... and this is being done to the finished,assembled round.... is dependent on testing.

A single taper interior allows,usually,one trip on the lathe reaming because of the inherent nature of a taper. Run the bullet in to where testing/groups shows results. On a two angle taper,where you're gonna also hit the first drive band.... will see the LG making another trip or two on the reaming to find the sweet spot.

I can easily show you a pic but,isn't much to see? Just a cylinder of O1 with a through hole in it.

Lube; having a machine shop.... we have quite an assortment of reaming and threading lubes. Have tried a few but.... none really work significantly better than Lee,LLA. AKA "mule snot" in cast bullet circles. The difference from those folks is,this isn't "so" much a lube for the bore,even though it has certain properties. It's more as a lube for the LG turning moment. And further details on the LLA,is that I pour this goo into empty Kiwi shoe polish tins,leaving them open to let the solvent/s burn off. The consistency,and appearance is exactly like the dang shoe polish.

Can't,and won't pretend to know exactly "why" it works so well. Honestly don't give a chit, it's that easy to do. It seems to uniform the noses like the old time construction,grading principle of,"cut 50,fill 50". It takes off the high spots,returning at least most of this into the low spots. The mule snot,filling in the spaces. Any excess lube isn't warranted and sorta makes a mess. This is why the LLA needs to be thought of more like a wax.

Any of you boys that have lathes,try making one. Reamers come in lots of shapes so won't bore you with listing them all and yes,I've even made some. I lapped some of the early ones but now prefer to leave the surface as it comes off the reamer,YMMV. Good luck with your shooting.
 
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I have at least one that has a length of hex shaft(wizz wheel a medium length screwdriver tip) pressed into the,outboard end. This can be chucked up in a drill motor for those who are so inclined.

I go both ways on this,more often just turn them by hand. Almost EXACTLY like a hand held pencil sharpener.
 
OK,one more thing that "may" not translate for CF to RF;

Most of y'all know what cast bullet lube sizers are and do. I RARELY "size" a bullet in one,restricting depth of engagement to swage and crimp the GC on. This is after they are installed on a jewelry C frame press. The take away here is yes,the bullet "sees" a Lyman 450.... but NOT necessarily how it is engineered.

What I did was,tigged a 1/4" or 3/8" female square drive "socket" for a torque wrench,onto the 450 factory handle. I use both sizes about equally. Also use beam style AND clicker style. Both have their respective benefits.... here's the difference;

The beam style allows you to "hold" your # numbers vs the pre set "click" style. The beam style also,and this can NOT be over stated,allows you to determine a yield point on not only the alloy,but the swage op itself. The clicker style is unique also. They allow you to "bump" the nose. By building pressure,that is very near predetermined yield point..... then it "clicks" or breaks over. It's when the wrench goes through this free zone that it moves the metal that tiny extra bit.

But back to the original point;

With or through an articulated arm motion, y'all could be uniforming your RF ammo. I'm not "into" RF so won't pretend to know certain inherent issues messing with loaded ammo in this way. Just sayin that,I swage the heck out of cast bullets on some pretty simple equipment. You want that front drive band's leading edge VERY uniform.

Edit to add; forgot to say you turn and ream "top punches" to be use as swage dies. And... while I'm concerned with holding the bullet base,y'all are faced with holding the same,PLUS the case.

Good luck with your shooting.
 
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No matter what you do,
if you have a harmonic barrel,

(massles rod, veloctiy is zerro)
Pendel.gif

Laufschwinging bester Moment.gif

you have perfect factory ammunition,
and you want to be at the front,
even then,
only helps to look at every bullet !

Measure with the Concentricity Gauge, is only half the truth.


Federal Parallelversatz.gif
Patrone Kopfversatz 3 ENG.jpg

Eley can be a little tricky. The bullet eventually flies well to the target.
Eley schräg.gif
Patrone Geschoss schräg 3 ENG.jpg

There are more factors to look at and sort.
Thank you for your attention.
Greetings from Germany.
 
Hi Bob, good ammo is the best way to get more accuracy.

Here are two examples of very similar ammunition from SK and Lapua.

With SK, the difference from lot to lot is greater. (three different lots)
View attachment 1217535

At Lapua, the difference from lot to lot is less. (three different lots)
View attachment 1217536

Look for the crimp, the last ring, and the grease grooves.

However, these are not factors for sorting rimfire ammunition.
That is the very best graphic comparison of ammo I've ever seen.

Thank you, Stowaway

TKH
 
Today,
Spin laundry,
or Rimfire manufacturing method,
or how the imbalance affects the barrel vibration.

Many years ago I did tests with the "Federal Gold Medal". Then I'm back to other brands.
95% were good, the rest were flyers.

The bullet is good. The tip is a little asymmetrical, (can also be wax).20201228172153.gif

The ogive is offset, (unbalanced)
20201228172211.gif

The ogive is slightly offset and the first ring wobbles (imbalance).
20201228172135.gif

A speculative sketch shows why this is so.
But setting and crimping remains a manufacturer's secret.
Crimping 1.jpg

This asymmetry (imbalance) has an impact on the barrel vibration.
Balanced Unbalanced Bullet.jpg

That was all.
I wish you a good slide for the next year.
(excuses my kindergarten english) :cool:
 
New lessons.
Which tire would you like?

This?
20210104165243(1).gif

Or this one?
20210104165322(1).gif

If you can't decide.
Then you can also measure the length of the ammunition. Good luck.

Oh one more thing.
I still like to look at the pumping lights.
The case is not round.

Have fun watching Tenex, Stowaway.:cool:
 
Stowaway – I love your illustrations. You’ve taken rimfire ammunition sorting to a new level; and unfortunately, most of us can’t begin to equal your sophistication.

Is there any meaningful categorization we can accomplish using tools found on the internet?

Examples are:

http://nielsonbrothersarms.com/Home.htm

https://bullettipping.com/products/concentricity-gauge/

If these are inadequate, are there others? Or, should we just buy the best ammunition we can afford and relax?
 
Hello everybody, hello HPC,
Before I answer your question, I would like to make two more posts. Thanks.

Car tire balancing lead.
This can also happen with ammunition. Very seldom.
But with 100 rounds I had to test one cartridge. Probably one of thousands.
20210105101707.gif
 
The second hello today.
I wanted to show you a few last pictures but can't find them.
(Most likely the pictures with my old computer were scrapped).

Thank you for your attention. With my posts I wanted to open your eyes a bit.
But it is not easy to look at the ammunition and make a choice.
It takes experience and practice.

@HPC
I know the two concentricyty gauges. The idea of large calibers is good.
For Rimmfire Ammunition only half the story. See also my post # 70 and everyone else.
The first Concentricity Gauge is too slow for viewing the ammunition.
With the second concentricyty gauge, the drive wheel is too big. The micro camera has no space.
(The Concentricity gauge (sorry, Viewing gauge) I use is from a German manufacturer)

Ammunition is only as good as it is made. And sometimes it is enough to discover the flyers.

Open your eyes.
The Stowaway
 

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