22 LR Bullet Sorting

[grauhanen]

Even the high-quality stuff varies more than most would think....

This is true. Too often shooters assume that when ammo comes from a single lot it is all relatively uniform in performance. This is not true in more cases than a lot of shooters may realize.

The number of rounds in a brick or a box that may be out of character varies. A killer lot will have none, but those lots are rare. Many lots of otherwise good ammo often have a few surprises. When shooters are surprised they may believe there's something mysterious at work with rimfire.

 

[TRSR8]

Ammunition at the highest level, Midas, Xact, etc. nobody sorts ir, virtually nobody.

 

[dhenry132]

I still do some sorting. I’m not trying to get average weight. I’m looking for that out of wack one that will throw a shot. A couple of them will knock you tight out of the top. I shoot TenX

 

[CharlieNC]

I still do some sorting. I’m not trying to get average weight. I’m looking for that out of wack one that will throw a shot. A couple of them will knock you tight out of the top. I shoot TenX

What measurements do you sort for, how bad were the measured outlier values and results on the target?

 

[PWNolan]

I still do some sorting. I’m not trying to get average weight. I’m looking for that out of wack one that will throw a shot. A couple of them will knock you tight out of the top. I shoot TenX

Back when I was still sorting, I weight sorted Tenex and Match too. When I pulled out a box of "out of whack" Tenex and it shot into the same group as the "good" ones. it was real eye opener. that's when I gave up sorting. Haven't done any sorting for 25 years

 

[BowChamp]

My experience with sorted ammo has been very very good!!!

Another shooter showed up to a match and had some Lapua ammo for sale. I bought it from him, shot the match with it that day and sent him home with his tail tucked between his legs. LOL!!!

Found out later it was his cull ammo left over from several cases he had sorted!!

 

[group therapy]

This is the setup I used, so there was no pilot error involved. Anschutz 54 supper match with 6 X 18 Bushnell scope. Not in keeping with the rifle but I had it on hand. View attachment 1193144 View attachment 1193145

is that a glow in the dark rear bag, LOL, you AINT gonna lose it!!!

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

No glow in the dark but it has some kind of slick silver cover on the ears.

 

[dhenry132]

What measurements do you sort for, how bad were the measured outlier values and results on the target?

I was sorting by weight. All the same lot. I go through the tunnel and bought several cases of the best performing lot (TenX).
Weights varied as much 9-10 grains. I put those in batches to test. I tried to do Ojive measurements, rather difficult at best. What I did find were variances of 20-25 thousands in the ojive. Again, put in similar batches to test.
Testing on ARA target showed the heavier bullets shot just as well but in a different place. The difference between the rest of the ammo was the heaver would print upper left and score a 50. Some were a 25.
The different ojive rounds were mixed. Some didn't seam to matter then one would be a flyer.
I have been playing with this the last few years. If nothing else, it gives me some mental confidence and something to do on cruddy weather days.
Thanks for all the replies.

 

[CharlieNC]

I was sorting by weight. All the same lot. I go through the tunnel and bought several cases of the best performing lot (TenX).
Weights varied as much 9-10 grains. I put those in batches to test. I tried to do Ojive measurements, rather difficult at best. What I did find were variances of 20-25 thousands in the ojive. Again, put in similar batches to test.
Testing on ARA target showed the heavier bullets shot just as well but in a different place. The difference between the rest of the ammo was the heaver would print upper left and score a 50. Some were a 25.
The different ojive rounds were mixed. Some didn't seam to matter then one would be a flyer.
I have been playing with this the last few years. If nothing else, it gives me some mental confidence and something to do on cruddy weather days.
Thanks for all the replies.

That's a lot of difference in weight!

 

[TRSR8]

Back when I was still sorting, I weight sorted Tenex and Match too. When I pulled out a box of "out of whack" Tenex and it shot into the same group as the "good" ones. it was real eye openeR. that's when I gave up sorting. Haven't done any sorting for 25 years

Several years ago when everybody was obsessing about concentricity when the Neilson gauges came. The WLM did some published reports where he pushed the slug out of alignment with the case……shot’em right into the group. Sold my gauge shortly after .

 

[searcher]

Ammunition at the highest level, Midas, Xact, etc. nobody sorts ir, virtually nobody.

That may be. Years ago, I was really into rimfire. I decided to do my own experimentation and bought some of everything, including Midas, 10x, Xact, on down to black box and lesser stuff. I measured each box for rim thickness and then runout on my Nielson rimfire runout tool. I took the 10% of each extreme outliers and shot them of a rest in an indoor range to see what was up. For weight, I only pulled the 5% of extreme outliers - top and bottom. My conclusion was that there was merit to going through the exercise if I really wanted to trust my ammo. I was never a competitor in any serious rimfire event as they are held a bit further than I like to drive. From what I learned, I'd be the "one" guy doing it if I were competing against other shooters. What really stood out to me was that after sorting the lesser brands, it was pretty amazing what they could do afterward.

 

[PWNolan]

What really stood out to me was that after sorting the lesser brands, it was pretty amazing what they could do afterward.

All the sorting and shooting I did I never found this to be true. Not even a hint of an improvement with mid-grade or low-end ammo. Otherwise I'd still be sorting the "lesser" ammo today. I shot a few different matches that didn't require top-shelf ammo to score well but if I thought I could get an edge over my competition by sorting I would certainly be doing it. So would everyone else

 

[searcher]

All the sorting and shooting I did I never found this to be true. Not even a hint of an improvement with mid-grade or low-end ammo. Otherwise I'd still be sorting the "lesser" ammo today. I shot a few different matches that didn't require top-shelf ammo to score well but if I thought I could get an edge over my competition by sorting I would certainly be doing it. So would everyone else

For some shooters and their equipment, maybe they won't see the difference on paper, especially if not shot in a controlled environment. I did see a difference. Not enough to enable me to win over a much better shooter - but enough to best myself. To me, that would be worth it if I were competing. But for those who don't see it after shooting perhaps 1,000 rounds or so in uncontrolled conditions, I don't blame them for their view. Afterall, a 1-2 mph wind is going to mask the effort and possibly be dismissed as all "wind". Does that make it not worthwhile? Some say yes - some say no.

I first started sorting Hornady .17 HMR by rim thickness due to the crazy variation of that particular case. I often wondered if Hornady sold rim thickness gauges because of that. The results were quite dramatic to me. That led me to doing it on my match .22 RF ammo for my benchrest rig. Because the match .22 rimfire ammo (or probably any .22 rimfire ammo for that matter) has much more consistent rim thickness than .17 HMR ammo, the results were greatly diminished - yet still there. Because match chambers tend to jam the bullet in a .22 RF, it further smooths out the concentricity issues - but the effect if still appears to be there - just to a much lesser degree. Taking the worst five or ten offenders (above and below spec) and shooting them for group shows this quite plainly. But the remaining ammo didn't need such attention. The problem is if one desires to find those five or ten, sorting is the only way to do it. If those five or ten shots didn't affect your shooting - just not too sure what to say about that. I believe there was a difference. Maybe your rifle didn't acknowledge them as mine did. Having one bullet jammed .002" more than another can make a difference - even in rimfire. My rifle is sensitive to it - I did find that. I think many find it a waste of time. If I compete again, I'm hoping they all feel that way. I can use all the help I can get - even if it is unfounded confidence in my ammo....

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Granted I have never sorted by weight or rim thickness as I don't see how it would, matter. but sorting by OAL from the rim face to the ogive has proven to me to work. similar to what CFBR shooters do how much land engagement will have an effect downrange.

Lee

 

[wkdickinson]

Granted I have never sorted by weight or rim thickness as I don't see how it would, matter. but sorting by OAL from the rim face to the ogive has proven to me to work. similar to what CFBR shooters do how much land engagement will have an effect downrange.

Lee

Lee,

How much variation do you find acceptable?

Wayne

 

[TRSR8]

For some shooters and their equipment, maybe they won't see the difference on paper, especially if not shot in a controlled environment. I did see a difference. Not enough to enable me to win over a much better shooter - but enough to best myself. To me, that would be worth it if I were competing. But for those who don't see it after shooting perhaps 1,000 rounds or so in uncontrolled conditions, I don't blame them for their view. Afterall, a 1-2 mph wind is going to mask the effort and possibly be dismissed as all "wind". Does that make it not worthwhile? Some say yes - some say no.

I first started sorting Hornady .17 HMR by rim thickness due to the crazy variation of that particular case. I often wondered if Hornady sold rim thickness gauges because of that. The results were quite dramatic to me. That led me to doing it on my match .22 RF ammo for my benchrest rig. Because the match .22 rimfire ammo (or probably any .22 rimfire ammo for that matter) has much more consistent rim thickness than .17 HMR ammo, the results were greatly diminished - yet still there. Because match chambers tend to jam the bullet in a .22 RF, it further smooths out the concentricity issues - but the effect if still appears to be there - just to a much lesser degree. Taking the worst five or ten offenders (above and below spec) and shooting them for group shows this quite plainly. But the remaining ammo didn't need such attention. The problem is if one desires to find those five or ten, sorting is the only way to do it. If those five or ten shots didn't affect your shooting - just not too sure what to say about that. I believe there was a difference. Maybe your rifle didn't acknowledge them as mine did. Having one bullet jammed .002" more than another can make a difference - even in rimfire. My rifle is sensitive to it - I did find that. I think many find it a waste of time. If I compete again, I'm hoping they all feel that way. I can use all the help I can get - even if it is unfounded confidence in my ammo....

Well FWIW, ammo at the best level, particularly, Lapua, is better than it’s ever been, all one has to do is look at RFBR records crushed in the last few years, plus the fact that the better RF smiths set up barrels slightly different these days with headspacing generally ..043”-.044” with .044” probably more common, eliminating rim issues generally.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee,

How much variation do you find acceptable?

Wayne

Hi Wayne

On my rifles .015+ or - is acceptable ideal OAL is .705 so I can use .720 at the high end and .690 at the low end this is with.030 engraving

Lee

 

[J.D.Erwin]

Just go online and see a Neil Jones tool in action! WTF why does everyone make a small thing a big thing

Call Neil yesterday and ordered his rimfire gauge and 22 mag adapter, well post results of before and after in a couple of weeks.

 

[mrh1958]

To each his own, and I am not bashing anyone here but sorting RF ammo is really a waste of time, you cant check the powder charge weight accurately or the bullet weight, the priming comes into play as well. I havent seen anyone mention bullets being loose in the case either, some are.